Helpful ReplyHot!Attempting to DIY myself into business ownership. First Build

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KrackerKev
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2017/10/29 18:08:24 (permalink)

Attempting to DIY myself into business ownership. First Build

Hey guys and gals. Ive decided to pursue a small idea Ive had in my head about owning and operating a food truck as my full time day job truck a few weeks ago.

Alot of hours spent researching various topics mainly on the diy aspects of the build, the actual operating and ownership seems to take a back seat in my head. Anyways its a 1999 Ford E350 5.4L with 14' Utilimaster Aluminum body, with alot of new brake, suspension and engine parts. The driveline of the vehicle is sound. The body not to much.



I cleaned the crap out of it from the previous owner. Removed most of the heavy duty aluminum shelving in the rear, random brackets and garbage left behind. The rollup door and everything associated with it on the backwall was the most time consuming, a great time drilling rivets. Leaving me with this. A relatively clean starting point.





The idea for sales of the truck is quite simple, selling snack foods and finger foods was my original idea. But my idea requires no cooking or grilling on the truck. In hopes of avoiding the troubles of propane, fire supression and costs etc. Keep it simple for my first rodeo and the truck will only require refridgeration.

So as of this weekend the truck now has no rear door so I would say that is going to take priority from the building aspect. I have to think about installing a new type of floor to suit the health dept, aswell as frame and finish all of the sidewalls to there liking aswell so all of them need to be considerred before i start any construction.

Do you fellas have any tips on the framing of a new door and all the back walls? I can get aluminum flat / angles / U chanel and square from work at a discount. My welder isnt setup for aluminum but could be.

Or could wood simply be used if anything new was to be added

In my head, I could avoid building any new walls if I simply installed 2 swings doors into the current rough opening. But am unsure of how the construction is properly done on that. As the floor right there has a dip lower than the floor infront of it, so Im not sure how the new floor would but up to the doors. Heck I dont even know what to make the doors out of. 75" height seems to rule out buying anything prefab from the big box stores so I could simply add some hinges to each simple prebought door. Any ideas?

I have plenty of help and ideas or questions Id love to ask about. Ive already gotten some help and ideas with a very helpful and inspiring member here who luckily has a build with a very similar truck.

I could type about my electric plans and such for another week but heck everything is up in the air right now exept for the need for a door on this thing so I will leave it at that for a moment to get the conversation going

Cheers to success
#1
hpx
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Re: Attempting to DIY myself into business ownership. First Build 2017/10/29 18:41:09 (permalink)
Best of luck to you. Did you save the aluminum shelves you removed?
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KrackerKev
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Re: Attempting to DIY myself into business ownership. First Build 2017/10/29 18:47:31 (permalink)
I certainly did. Seemed silly not to, figured I could repurpose them somehwere in my life lol.

I left the 2 smaller ones at the front of the serving side as they have a smooth piece of aluminum as walls behind them because thats where the side entrance door sneaks in. I figure the hd wont have a problem with those if the rest of the walls are smooth.
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Blakkmoon
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Re: Attempting to DIY myself into business ownership. First Build 2017/10/29 20:01:11 (permalink)
Hey is this the same Kevin that contacted me a few weeks back?
Haven't heard from you in a while.
Glad you got in.
 
That door was fun eh?
 
Are you going to use the door for a regular entrance / exit?
 
Have you got the rest of your layout all designed yet?
 
Here are some shots of a truck a friend of mine did a couple of years ago.
Actually the one that inspired me to do this.
It is almost the same truck, just not the dually version.
 
Maybe it will give you some ideas.
 

 

 

 

 
He walled in the back door completely.
Pretty sure it was removable.  Or hinged.  But it was one big piece.
 
He was able to put this big fridge unit back there.

 
He also just simply framed in the entire truck, then did insulation, frp walls and ceiling.
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KrackerKev
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Re: Attempting to DIY myself into business ownership. First Build 2017/10/29 20:15:35 (permalink)
Yes sir same Kev, I did finally get admin approved for this forum.

I dont have a solid layout plan as of yet. I was just notified a few days ago that I am not required to have NSF listed appliances and containers, so I can start looking I suppose.

As for the door I wouldnt say it would be regularly used, but definetely enough through loading and unloading equipment and drink cases that I wouldnt want to wall it off for good.

I just cant think of a material or prefab door I could make work in the situation. I thought about cutting down the original roll door, as its aluminum but it was in poor shape.

I feel lile running the electric on the exterior of the walls seems like the best bet for a newb likely to make changes, and seems to make inspectors happy. I have that same plate on the divider wall you have Blakkmoon that you put abs pipe thru to run wires to the panel, but mine in convieniently on the passenger side.
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Blakkmoon
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Re: Attempting to DIY myself into business ownership. First Build 2017/10/29 21:37:11 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby TravelingPan 2017/10/30 23:25:35
I would stand in the truck for a long time.
Visualize working.
Trying to decide what works best for a workflow for me.
 
I could find what I wanted for a door either.
It was easier to just build one.
 
I agree with running electrical on the exterior of the walls for that purpose.
It would be nice to see it done with metal or plastic conduit.
Way easier to clean.
 
I just made sure to put in more outlets than I needed. ( I hope )
I still have room on my panel for a few more.
 
I put that abs on BOTH sides, drivers and passengers.
But I had a LOT of wire to run.
And I wanted the panel up front, not in the kitchen area.
Because by code it MUST be open and accessible.
 
#6
KrackerKev
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Re: Attempting to DIY myself into business ownership. First Build 2017/10/31 13:54:48 (permalink)
Good to know, it would definetely be in plastic conduit if I stuck with it external on the walls.

Im having a hard time locking down an idea for doors in my head. Cant find anything I feel is secure enough for a door and to be able to trim properly if I had to cut the height down
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TravelingPan
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Re: Attempting to DIY myself into business ownership. First Build 2017/10/31 18:46:26 (permalink)
KrackerKev
Good to know, it would definetely be in plastic conduit if I stuck with it external on the walls.

Im having a hard time locking down an idea for doors in my head. Cant find anything I feel is secure enough for a door and to be able to trim properly if I had to cut the height down

Can you fit some sort of camper or RV door in? Maybe even something you can salvage or find on craigslist.
 
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Blakkmoon
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Re: Attempting to DIY myself into business ownership. First Build 2017/10/31 20:18:59 (permalink)
OK well I gotta ask...
 
How much security are you needing really....
 
I get it if you don't want a screen door on there.
 
But do you need any better than your average steel door??
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KrackerKev
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Re: Attempting to DIY myself into business ownership. First Build 2017/10/31 20:47:23 (permalink)
Well Ive never owned a business before, so Im really not sure how attractive the truck will be to scumbags. I plan on parking on my own property when not in use, but that could always change based on convienience.

A steel door would likely be fine. But 78" seems to be the minimum height. Cant find anything for 74-75" height.

In my head since the opening is exactly 75", i figure a door about 74.5" would be perfect to not have to do any framing right, just to mount with hinges in the existing opening, add some weather strip, locks, voila....

But it seems I may need to fabricate the doors diy if I dont want to spend 500 each for custom sizing
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Blakkmoon
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Re: Attempting to DIY myself into business ownership. First Build 2017/10/31 22:58:38 (permalink)
Again.... same reason I just made my own.
 
1x1 square steel, and some sheeting.
Done in an afternoon.
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KrackerKev
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Re: Attempting to DIY myself into business ownership. First Build 2017/11/01 00:13:26 (permalink)
Well, ive got a nice Lincoln Mig so I guess I might aswell use it. I trust I can make the frame nicely, its the finishing I will have to think about a little more
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Blakkmoon
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Re: Attempting to DIY myself into business ownership. First Build 2017/11/01 00:46:52 (permalink)
Have you ever seen toy hauler type enclosed trailers?
Ones I have seen here, the back doors, whether swing out or drop down, are just pressure treated 1/2 or 3/4 inch plywood with aluminum skins.
Usually some aluminum u channel for the edge.
Super simple.
 
I modeled mine after that.
Just happened to have the square tube because I was able to salvage it from somewhere.
Filled the hollow space with Styrofoam for some insulation.
 
Hinges and spring latches from PA.
 
If you plan to use it as an exit....  make just one door, extra wide.
 
Don't forget to leave room for your generator if you are going to use it as an exit.
#13
chefbuba
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Re: Attempting to DIY myself into business ownership. First Build 2017/11/01 01:14:53 (permalink)
Look at trailer manufacturers see about a ramp door, they may be able to do custom sizes.
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TravelingPan
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Re: Attempting to DIY myself into business ownership. First Build 2017/11/01 07:00:49 (permalink)
You know you can cut the standard manufactured door down right? Just cut at the bottom.
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Blakkmoon
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Re: Attempting to DIY myself into business ownership. First Build 2017/11/02 10:04:40 (permalink)
Hey, did you check out this thread?
 
I can't remember if I mentioned it before.
That's paulnye.
 
He used just a regular type door framed in.
Looks like it worked out well.
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KrackerKev
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Re: Attempting to DIY myself into business ownership. First Build 2017/11/05 06:52:38 (permalink)
Thanks for the tips guys. I did some bargain hunting and found a great deal on white exterior steel slab doors. On clearance at Rona for $55 each.




I slept on it for a day after discoverring them, as they are 36" wide, and standard height, so I have to cut them on 2 sides and refinish those cut edges. Before making that decision I hunted for a moulding/weatherstrip that could cover the cut edge , aswell as seal out the weather Found this garage door moulding at HD in 8' lengths for $25. Fits the door width perfect, and has a nice thick rubber weatherstrip. I will use a standard exterior door sweep type gaurd for the bottom.



Since my opening is 75 x 60 I figure I will try to cut each door to 74 1/2 x 29.5, rough mount and shim them in place so I can drill some holes, have them hinged on the exterior of the truck. Picked up nice stainless hindges and stainless hardware big enough to go through the door and bolt to the backside. I bought enough for 3 hinges per door. Then just pray my gaps are good..... Sound like a plan? See any flaws?




Ive been trying to wrap my head around the sink, heaters and tanks and how to make it as less of a headache as possible. Is it impossible to have your waste water tank under the sink aswell? Seems avoiding having to put a huge whole in the trucks floor would be worth the hassle?

Theelectric water heater ecotemp 2.5 is priced at almost to low of a price on amazon. A quarter of the price what home depot is asking, that unit seems great so I will likely buy that from them and maybe even a spare I also have a nice brand new 12v 2.2gpm pump to use for this



Being new to plumbing can we dumb down the lingo and help me understand? Youd have a fresh water tank, with a feed line from the bottom of it to the 12v pump. From the outlet of the pump you need to split the water line so one goes to the cold water side of the faucet, and the other to thr inlet of the water heater. And from the water heater outlet to the hot water connection of the faucet.

But then I will have 2 faucets, do you have to split the hot water lines again to feed each one? Can you tell Ive never done this?

For the drain? I would spend a week getting all 4 sink drains into a nice dragon looking piece, and have them all drain into the waste tank, is there any reason the waste tank cant be under the sink though?

Ive also seen alot of people mention ebay sinks for a diy unit, but dont see any attractive quad/triple sinks on there. My idea is to buy a stainless table with back and sidesplash and cut the sinks into the top and have both tanks, water heater and 12v pump crammed under there.

Cant say I understand why air vents are needed to be run up the walls and such either. Need to do some more research, so much to research
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Blakkmoon
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Re: Attempting to DIY myself into business ownership. First Build 2017/11/05 09:39:31 (permalink)
Nice find on the doors.
I was planning 3 hinges per side as well.
Found it was over kill.  Used 2.
 
How are you mounting the hinges ?
Are you drilling into the wooden edge of the door?
If so, counter sink the hinge.
I wish I would have done it like that.
But I had a steel frame.
 
If you mount it flat across the face of the door.  Which is what it sounds like you are doing.
Don't forget some nice big fender washers on the inside. Both door and truck body.
Those doors are super thin tin wrapped around styro foam.
Once you drill into it and put the bolts through it, THAT becomes the weight bearing part of the door.
They are not meant for that.
You can do it.
But either some big big fender washers or a mounting plate will spread out the load.
I learned this the hard way.
And don't over tighten it.
 
How do you plan to lock it?
 
I used one of these ( from princess auto ) at the top of each door on the inside.

 
If you do.
Don't forget to try to account for the thickness of the finished wall.
 
Also, when cutting the door, don't forget the account for the thickness of the finished floor.
#18
Blakkmoon
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Re: Attempting to DIY myself into business ownership. First Build 2017/11/05 11:34:13 (permalink)
Check with your HD about the size of the tank.
I bought a 2.5 gal one, then got told not to use it.
Had to go up to a 6.5.
 
The physical size was almost the same.
And it was only about $50 more.
 
I wanted to do the tanks on the inside as well.
Until I found out they would not fit under the sink I had.
But it can be done, if it fits under the table.
Or if you custom build the frame work for the table.
 
Don't forget about your grey water dump.
If you put the waste tank on the inside, you still have to dump it outside.
So you are still going through either the wall or the floor.
 
I highly doubt the HD would approve of having the dump valve inside the truck.
They may not even approve having the waste tank inside the truck. Check.
 
DON"T go through the wall if it is on the service side!
The last thing you want is some kid fiddling with the dump valve while you are serving food.
 
Check with your HD about the size of the sinks before you decide.
Lots of people here do what you are proposing.  HD is passing them.
But they told me they are starting change their minds on it.
 
If I did not already have one, I would have ordered something like this and run across the boarder to grab it.
By the time you destroy the $200 table and add the pans for the sinks and add in all the labour to do it......
Just a thought.
 
I aint no plumber.
I thought it was going to be harder than it was.
Pretty simple once I got going.
I even added complexity.
You can see it on my build thread.
 
Here is what I did.
 
 
Gawd I hope I did it right.
All connected, but it's pretty cold here now, I'm scared to test it.
 

 
 
#19
KrackerKev
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Re: Attempting to DIY myself into business ownership. First Build 2017/11/05 15:32:29 (permalink)
Good afternoon Blakkmoon, always excited to read your replies. I did buy some large stainless fender washers to use on the back of the doors, and planned on making a backer plate for the backside of the truckwalls.

I figured I actually wouldnt account for the height of the finish floor when cutting the door, I planned on stopping and capping whatever flooring I go with right against the back of them. So i hoped to have the doors seal against the existing aluminum threshold.

I couldnt find those darn spring latches anywhere, but that was in my head to use them for locks.

Thanks very much for posting that plumbing diagram. Lots of shut off valves in there! I would buy the ebay sink if they sold it in a 4 sink version. I think Id like to have all 4 sunk into one top. The one time I spoke to the health dept they said the sinks need to be able to wash my biggest cookware. Ill have to inquire about a hot water tank min size

As for draining the grey water, if I am pucky enough to make a tank fit under the sink, i was thinking of connecting and running a hose out the back door.... No holes, or maybe plan to have the sinks on the non serve side like you said and have the ugly ports for drain and fill over there.

Having the tank under the truck would admitedly save alot of room, but cutting a 3" hole in the floor makes me cringe for the truck lol.
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Blakkmoon
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Re: Attempting to DIY myself into business ownership. First Build 2017/11/05 17:03:22 (permalink)
Thats the same way my doors ended up.
Works well.
But my doors are only 1 inch thick.
You will figure it out.
 
Those spring latches are in isle 6b in the trailer parts.  
 
Lots of shut offs allow me to isolate the system.
I want to be able to pull out the HWT and the pump for the winter.
It gets to -30    -40  up here.
 
HD told me same thing about the sinks.
They also told me that a 2.5 gal tank will not fill up the rinse and sanitize sinks.
 
Some HD's don't like the sinks all together.
Some like a separated one.
Or at least dividers.
 
Again, check with HD about running the waste tank hose out the back door.
I would kind of think they would be against it.
Way too much chance of contaminating the cooking area.
 
No big deal to cut the floor.
You could cut a 4 foot by 4 foot hole and not affect the structural integrity of the truck.
Even if you cut the cross beams.
But you don't need to do that. 
#21
KrackerKev
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Re: Attempting to DIY myself into business ownership. First Build 2017/11/05 17:12:31 (permalink)
Wish the respective départements were easier to communicate with. Not once have I gotten through when calling, always to voicemail when transferred, then never a call back. Fire department was the only ones to seem to care so far about putting me on the right track.

When I called the Esa hotline, the tech literally told me you cant add a breaker panel to a commercial food truck, so my questions stopped there. Im curious how you knew which box to buy? Is there a certain style that allows both the generator to feed the panel, and when the genset is off to have the panel powered by a shore power plug? I havent seen in your thread or anyones how that shore line is connected to the panel or exterior of the truck and run to the panel
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410John
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Re: Attempting to DIY myself into business ownership. First Build 2017/11/05 17:25:27 (permalink)
https://postimg.org/image/7iswg3yi4b/

This link is to my sink. Hope it helps.
post edited by 410John - 2017/11/05 17:44:42
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KrackerKev
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Re: Attempting to DIY myself into business ownership. First Build 2017/11/05 17:57:17 (permalink)
Yes it does help visualize thank you. You hook up a hose for drainage aswell? Still trying to wrap my head around the "vents" do both tanks need them at certain heights? To make them less intrusive it seems you have one just above the tank, any negatove to that other than water sloshing around
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410John
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Re: Attempting to DIY myself into business ownership. First Build 2017/11/05 18:01:34 (permalink)
I drilled two small holes in the pvc fill cap on the supply tank. And I didn't vent the gray water tank because the drains all drain into a large open pipe. I'll look for more pics.
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TravelingPan
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Re: Attempting to DIY myself into business ownership. First Build 2017/11/05 18:23:14 (permalink)
Ooooo I like these!
 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/...349526.m4383.l4275.c10
 
http://vi.vipr.ebaydesc.c...Clk=1&secureDesc=0
post edited by TravelingPan - 2017/11/05 18:30:20
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Blakkmoon
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Re: Attempting to DIY myself into business ownership. First Build 2017/11/05 19:55:33 (permalink)
TravelingPan
Ooooo I like these!
 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/...349526.m4383.l4275.c10
 
http://vi.vipr.ebaydesc.c...Clk=1&secureDesc=0




Ouch!  $PENDY!!
 
Here, our HD says it's more of a "recommendation" than a rule...
But they like to see a minimum 30 gallon fresh tank.
And 15% bigger for the grey. ( actual rule )
 
My tanks all came with 4 ports.
Venting was a no brainer.
 
Top port 1 or 2.
 
 
BTW I vented my grey tank out near the top of the truck.

 
Might be overkill, but that is the serving side.
Don't need any stinkyness near the people.
Or in the truck.
 
That's why we use pea traps.
post edited by Blakkmoon - 2017/11/07 09:20:30
#27
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Re: Attempting to DIY myself into business ownership. First Build 2017/11/06 00:13:42 (permalink)
KrackerKev
Wish the respective départements were easier to communicate with. Not once have I gotten through when calling, always to voicemail when transferred, then never a call back. Fire department was the only ones to seem to care so far about putting me on the right track.
For many of us.... this is NORMAL.

Im curious how you knew which box to buy? Is there a certain style that allows both the generator to feed the panel, and when the genset is off to have the panel powered by a shore power plug? I havent seen in your thread or anyones how that shore line is connected to the panel or exterior of the truck and run to the panel



My thread here shows the power inlet box I used.

 
It is at the back of the truck.
Inside I have shielded 6 gauge wire running to the front of the truck where the panel is mounted.
 
The generator will plug into this outlet.
When I am at home, I use the same cord that was hooked to the genny and plug it into a 220 v outlet I have running from my garage.... shore power.
 
The thing is that I already knew I was going to be running a big genny.
So I knew I was running 220 to the panel.
 
I think you were still undecided on how much power you were going to need.
 
As for which panel?
I just chose the the biggest residential panel that would fit the space I had available.
I also wanted to make sure I had enough spaces plus extra spaces.
The price difference between the one I chose over one with half the breakers was like $30.
No brainer... I'm good at no brainer stuff.
#28
KrackerKev
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Re: Attempting to DIY myself into business ownership. First Build 2017/11/06 05:15:51 (permalink)
Ohhhh I kinda get the breaker panel wiring in your situation. I do have a 240v plug in my garage, but I cant imagine events or locations with a handy outlet would be able to help me plug in
 
I don't have my power useage needs confirmed, but ballpark around 2500 w constant, peaks of 4000. I am thinking of getting 2 of these Harbour freight predator 3500 invertor generators, read quite a lot of great reviews, seem to run very quiet. And they can be run side by side with the parallel cord. But I am still limited to the 30amps.
 
 
Does that mean for me that I would simply use an extension cord plugged into shore power, and purchase whatever style connector the bottom of the 30amp version of the power inlet box you bought uses? They don't stock the 50amp one you purchased, but I think the 30amp is what I need anyways.
 
 
 
Excuse my ignorance, but I just assumed there were special breaker boxes suited for outdoor buildings maybe, or had some feature to be powered by genset and shore power, but now the extension cord to the power inlet box makes sence, don't know why I thought the shore power would have its own inlet box.
 
I owe you fellas some cases of brewskie
 
#29
KrackerKev
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Re: Attempting to DIY myself into business ownership. First Build 2017/11/06 07:30:04 (permalink)
Weird all my links were removed from that post
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