Helpful ReplyHot!Italian entrees at old grocers / sandwich shops...

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1bbqboy
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Re: Italian entrees at old grocers / sandwich shops... 2017/04/07 12:23:16 (permalink)
I have a chef friend here in the RV from
Modena. He was initially imported to be an Italian chef in America. That was in NYC. Then he met a Puerto Rican girl and they ended up here. Now, he could fix whatever a traditional Modena meal might be, but what he does now is totally influenced by living on the West Coast. Not right or wrong, just diferent than living in an East Coast bubble, I'd reckon. WJ and Mr. Chips both ate at their Mexican place with PR overtones on visits here.
post edited by 1bbqboy - 2017/04/07 12:25:32
#61
lleechef
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Re: Italian entrees at old grocers / sandwich shops... 2017/04/07 12:41:16 (permalink)
I went to school in Paris.  When I cook French food, it's authentic French food.  I don't put an American spin on it.  I don't add BBQ sauce to my coq au vin nor do I substitute Kraft sliced American for gruyère.  But hey, everyone can do whatever they want when they cook.
#62
1bbqboy
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Re: Italian entrees at old grocers / sandwich shops... 2017/04/07 12:51:04 (permalink)
Except you're from Pittsburgh. Doesn't that count for something?
I guess my point is authentic is whenever someone decides to freeze time, for themselves. That's what's correct and that's the only thing that's correct. End of story. I just think reality
says otherwise as assimilation happens. When my friend cooks Italian here it's with fresh Rogue Valley grown and made ingredients so is it authentic? Probably not. Is it wonderful and delicious?
You bet!
And that's what I care about.
post edited by 1bbqboy - 2017/04/07 12:58:02
#63
leethebard
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Re: Italian entrees at old grocers / sandwich shops... 2017/04/07 13:11:03 (permalink)
So to you, who hates labels, authentic is whatever you want it to be????? And that fiend from Italy who changes an Italian recipe would also KNOW it's not authentic....It might be FUSION, but certainly wouldn't qualify as AUTHENTIC. I totally agree with lleechef...You can do what ever you want, but to alter  ethnic food, doesn't make it authentic simply by saying it is...wishing doesn't make it so.....so flood dried pasta with a sugar based sauce if you like that..enjoy, but know it is an American hybrid, not REAL Italian!
#64
ann peeples
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Re: Italian entrees at old grocers / sandwich shops... 2017/04/07 13:15:07 (permalink)
Who cares? Get over yourself leethebard. Enjoy your authentic food. I will enjoy mine.
post edited by ann peeples - 2017/04/07 13:16:37
#65
leethebard
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Re: Italian entrees at old grocers / sandwich shops... 2017/04/07 13:20:58 (permalink)
Nothing to get over....I've said 4-5 times like what you want...lleechef says the same thing. You don't tell her to get over herself. I've been trying to say my feelings nicely.One says I'm silly, and now you say"get over yourself" Thanks Ann! 
#66
Wintahaba
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Re: Italian entrees at old grocers / sandwich shops... 2017/04/07 13:33:49 (permalink)
Ketteract
leethebard
just hate when people rave about something they call is "ITALIAN" when no self respecting Italian would. That's more "Italian-American".




I believe the word "Italian", when used in the context of American grocers, sit-down restaurants, sandwich shops, is commonly understood to mean "Italian-American", but semantics aside, it should be pretty clear what kinds of places, proprietors, and foods this thread is intended to cover.  Comparisons to genuine, made-within-Italy cuisine are inevitable; it's fascinating to see what was brought across the sea and how it evolved.  That being said, while I understand the reflex to put the Italian-Italian way on a pedestal as "the proper way", "the way it should be done", etc... it's just not useful or constructive.  We do things differently over here, and that's just how it is - it's not inherently superior or inferior.


I truly thank you for showing us your different dining adventures. It all looks tremendous...I would love that here, even if it's not made with 100 year old family Authorized Authentic recipes.
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lleechef
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Re: Italian entrees at old grocers / sandwich shops... 2017/04/07 14:12:40 (permalink)
1bbqboy
Except you're from Pittsburgh. Doesn't that count for something?


I dunno.  What does it count for?  You tell me.
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Re: Italian entrees at old grocers / sandwich shops... 2017/04/07 14:14:09 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby JRPfeff 2017/04/07 14:35:28
This is the Italian grocery store in Baltimore where I shop and often have lunch
 
http://www.dipasquales.com/history-italian-foods-deli-baltimore/ 
 
This is a picture of their spaghetti and meatballs

 
 
 
post edited by Greymo - 2017/04/07 14:23:11
#69
lleechef
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Re: Italian entrees at old grocers / sandwich shops... 2017/04/07 14:28:51 (permalink)
I would like to apologize to Ketteract who will probably never, ever, ever again post a simple picture of
ziti and meatballs!!!!!
 


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leethebard
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Re: Italian entrees at old grocers / sandwich shops... 2017/04/07 14:36:05 (permalink)
Me too!
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Re: Italian entrees at old grocers / sandwich shops... 2017/04/07 14:47:02 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Root-Beer Man 2017/04/07 14:57:33
Great!  I feel that if you don't like the way a picture of food looks , just keep your mouth shut and no lectures on how wrong it looks.  We are fortunate to have Ketteract post pictures of his great eating adventures.
#72
joerogo
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Re: Italian entrees at old grocers / sandwich shops... 2017/04/07 14:57:14 (permalink)
lleechef
1bbqboy
Except you're from Pittsburgh. Doesn't that count for something?


I dunno.  What does it count for?  You tell me.


French fries on your foie gras? 
#73
chickenplucker
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Re: Italian entrees at old grocers / sandwich shops... 2017/04/07 14:58:12 (permalink)
Greymo
Great!  I feel that if you don't like the way a picture of food looks , just keep your mouth shut and no lectures on how wrong it looks.  We are fortunate to have Ketteract post pictures of his great eating adventures.

This^^^^
#74
lleechef
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Re: Italian entrees at old grocers / sandwich shops... 2017/04/07 15:06:34 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby joerogo 2017/04/07 15:28:55
joerogo
lleechef
1bbqboy
Except you're from Pittsburgh. Doesn't that count for something?


I dunno.  What does it count for?  You tell me.


French fries on your foie gras? 


Of course.  And cole slaw and two slices of tomato on Italian bread.....but not too much red sauce, please. 
post edited by lleechef - 2017/04/07 15:08:42
#75
Michael Hoffman
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Re: Italian entrees at old grocers / sandwich shops... 2017/04/07 15:08:20 (permalink)
lleechef
joerogo
lleechef
1bbqboy
Except you're from Pittsburgh. Doesn't that count for something?


I dunno.  What does it count for?  You tell me.


French fries on your foie gras? 


Only if there's not too much red sauce. 


That does it. I'm never taking you to Caruso's.
 
#76
leethebard
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Re: Italian entrees at old grocers / sandwich shops... 2017/04/07 15:14:59 (permalink)
Greymo
Great!  I feel that if you don't like the way a picture of food looks , just keep your mouth shut and no lectures on how wrong it looks.  We are fortunate to have Ketteract post pictures of his great eating adventures.


I resent being told to "keep your mouth shut" There are many people who give opinions attack food they think is terrible and such. I make a comment about a dish that isn't authentic and I get attacked like I insulted the Pope. We are "fortunate" that we live in a world where one opinion is as valuable as another Greymo.
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joerogo
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Re: Italian entrees at old grocers / sandwich shops... 2017/04/07 15:28:37 (permalink)

 
"Honestly... yeah.  For reference, here's how one of my Italian-American friends does it.  This is someone whose dad immigrated directly from Sicily.  Maybe it's not how his dad did it, but it's how he does it.
 

 
I don't think it's especially useful, productive, or correct to hold up Italian-Italian ways as some gold standard to which Italian-Americans must strive.  Don't New Haven or New York pizza, for example, differ substantially from what Italy itself has?  Why do they get a pass?"

 
....and let me go back and comment on this photo.....Very Nice!  A good example of Sunday Sauce with braciole, meatballs and sausage over cavatelli.  You really don't see a lot of dishes like this in Italy.  Sunday sauce is a many hour ordeal, most sauces in Italy aren't started until the pasta goes in the water.  
 
Examples:












Ok, now I'm just showing off.  Also, I guarantee that all are regionally appropriate.   With my point being, let's think about the different types of places Ketteract mentions, because same thing applies in Italy and elsewhere. 
 
I'm a fan of anything, except upscale and modern. 
post edited by joerogo - 2017/04/07 15:31:05
#78
chickenplucker
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Re: Italian entrees at old grocers / sandwich shops... 2017/04/07 15:30:47 (permalink)
Now I'm hungry.....
#79
Ketteract
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Re: Italian entrees at old grocers / sandwich shops... 2017/04/07 15:30:57 (permalink)
Greymo
Great!  I feel that if you don't like the way a picture of food looks , just keep your mouth shut and no lectures on how wrong it looks.  We are fortunate to have Ketteract post pictures of his great eating adventures.




I fully expected there to be comparisons. They're fun and educational. And we all have our personal tastes, of course. What I take exception to is holding any particular regional style of cuisine up as a gold standard. I mean, c'mon - we've all seen enough food, on Roadfood, in our lives, everywhere, to know that there's no one way to do any dish. Once again, I'll point out the examples of New York and New Haven pizza. These are different from what you'd get in Italy, but you don't see anyone bemoaning that: indeed, New York and New Haven are themselves the reference points. That doesn't even take into account the myriad of other pizza styles across America.
 
Now, if a restaurant were billing itself as 100% authentic, genuine down to the last detail, just-like-you're-really-there Italian, then obviously there's all sorts of things wrong with what I've posted so far. These places, however, are absolutely not that. Never were, never will be. They preserve more Italian sensibilities than, say, the Fazoli's chain, but as with New York and New Haven, they have their own identity and their own food, appropriating the word "Italian" and placing it into a well-understood American context. This has been happening for as long as immigrants and diaspora have been setting up shop here in this country, and it truly makes the conversation easier if we just accept that.  
post edited by Ketteract - 2017/04/07 15:32:26
#80
leethebard
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Re: Italian entrees at old grocers / sandwich shops... 2017/04/07 15:35:13 (permalink)
Ketteract
Greymo
Great!  I feel that if you don't like the way a picture of food looks , just keep your mouth shut and no lectures on how wrong it looks.  We are fortunate to have Ketteract post pictures of his great eating adventures.




I fully expected there to be comparisons. They're fun and educational. And we all have our personal tastes, of course. What I take exception to is holding any particular regional style of cuisine up as a gold standard. I mean, c'mon - we've all seen enough food, on Roadfood, in our lives, everywhere, to know that there's no one way to do any dish. Once again, I'll point out the examples of New York and New Haven pizza. These are different from what you'd get in Italy, but you don't see anyone bemoaning that: indeed, New York and New Haven are themselves the reference points. That doesn't even take into account the myriad of other pizza styles across America.
 
Now, if a restaurant were billing itself as 100% authentic, genuine down to the last detail, just-like-you're-really-there Italian, then obviously there's all sorts of things wrong with what I've posted so far. These places, however, are absolutely not that. Never were, never will be. They preserve more Italian sensibilities than, say, the Fazoli's chain, but as with New York and New Haven, they have their own identity and their own food, appropriating the word "Italian" and placing it into a well-understood American context. This has been happening for as long as immigrants and diaspora have been setting up shop here in this country, and it truly makes the conversation easier if we just accept that.  


Agreed!!
#81
leethebard
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Re: Italian entrees at old grocers / sandwich shops... 2017/04/07 15:36:22 (permalink)
joerogo

 
"Honestly... yeah.  For reference, here's how one of my Italian-American friends does it.  This is someone whose dad immigrated directly from Sicily.  Maybe it's not how his dad did it, but it's how he does it.
 

 
I don't think it's especially useful, productive, or correct to hold up Italian-Italian ways as some gold standard to which Italian-Americans must strive.  Don't New Haven or New York pizza, for example, differ substantially from what Italy itself has?  Why do they get a pass?"

 
....and let me go back and comment on this photo.....Very Nice!  A good example of Sunday Sauce with braciole, meatballs and sausage over cavatelli.  You really don't see a lot of dishes like this in Italy.  Sunday sauce is a many hour ordeal, most sauces in Italy aren't started until the pasta goes in the water.  
 
Examples:












Ok, now I'm just showing off.  Also, I guarantee that all are regionally appropriate.   With my point being, let's think about the different types of places Ketteract mentions, because same thing applies in Italy and elsewhere. 
 
I'm a fan of anything, except upscale and modern. 


Ill eat every dish there..especially the spaghetti just coated in red sauce!
#82
leethebard
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Re: Italian entrees at old grocers / sandwich shops... 2017/04/07 15:40:01 (permalink)
And agreed Italian food is regional, and what Americans consider "Italian", those red sauce dishes are Neopolitan. Naples was where most of our Italian immigrants came from. Quite different from central and Northern Italian cuisine.Fusion restaurants are so in now, perhaps we need an Italian fusion place...oh wait we have a lot of those!
 
#83
lleechef
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Re: Italian entrees at old grocers / sandwich shops... 2017/04/07 15:44:23 (permalink)
JOE ROGO you are indeed a SHOW OFF!!!!!  But those plates look mighty fine. 
#84
mlm
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Re: Italian entrees at old grocers / sandwich shops... 2017/04/07 15:50:05 (permalink)
I was waiting for someone to point out that Italian food served in Italy varies widely. As for the Italian fusion remark... I refuse to rise to the bait. Now, can we bury the hatchet (not in each other' heads) or shall we add a debate over the worth of various Italian regional cuisines to the situation? Y'all decide.
#85
joerogo
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Re: Italian entrees at old grocers / sandwich shops... 2017/04/07 15:50:16 (permalink)
lleechef
JOE ROGO you are indeed a SHOW OFF!!!!!  But those plates look mighty fine. 


Now I made myself hungry!!!  
#86
ScreamingChicken
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Re: Italian entrees at old grocers / sandwich shops... 2017/04/07 15:50:51 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby joerogo 2017/04/07 15:55:37
joerogo
 


Joe, are you sure this dish has the correct authentic Italian ratio of lima beans to noodles?
#87
leethebard
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Re: Italian entrees at old grocers / sandwich shops... 2017/04/07 15:53:35 (permalink)
mlm
I was waiting for someone to point out that Italian food served in Italy varies widely. As for the Italian fusion remark... I refuse to rise to the bait. Now, can we bury the hatchet (not in each other' heads) or shall we add a debate over the worth of various Italian regional cuisines to the situation? Y'all decide.


Agreed, also!
#88
mlm
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Re: Italian entrees at old grocers / sandwich shops... 2017/04/07 15:56:13 (permalink)
Thank you, if the agreement was to cease combat. In that case, hope the others will join us.
#89
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Re: Italian entrees at old grocers / sandwich shops... 2017/04/07 19:47:10 (permalink)
leethebard-
 
Were you born in Italy or are you Italian-American?
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