Helpful ReplyHot!Master Plan, Part Deux ....

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KrackerKev
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2018/01/14 16:24:49 (permalink)
That's a cool real world test. I'm curious what is the intention for the roaster in your application?

Was the generator separated from the truck and on the ground? Just to loud in general from a customer view?
Blakkmoon
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2018/01/14 17:01:42 (permalink)
The roaster is to do things like roast beef, roast turkey, roast potatoes, and anything else I can come up with.
Heck, yesterday I made my very first cheesecake, and did it in the roaster.
It replaces an oven. Will do a 20 pound turkey in about 2 hours.
 
But at the moment, it was just for pulling watts.
I have other things, like big warmer / steamer, induction hot plate.
So I just need to know if it will keep up.
 
Yes it was on the ground.
It's quieter than some.  Runs really smooth.
But I want it QUIET.
 
Oh yeah, I had the exhaust fan running too.
Don't know the watts on that.
 
Overall I am pretty impressed with how much I can run with it.
post edited by Blakkmoon - 2018/01/18 23:34:36
Inferno
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2018/01/25 19:54:45 (permalink)
Nice looking job, glad to see it come together for you over the last year. I'm impressed that you had enough space even for 2 filing cabinets. That's got to be the first I have ever seen. You know how I would make that generator quite, honda generator. Sell that extra equipment and that generator and put into the Honda eu7000. When are you going out to make some money?
 
cavemaneats
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2018/01/27 10:29:02 (permalink)
Blakkmoon
Yesterday, I got the generator ready to go.

 
Today, I fired it up and let it run for the recommended break in period.
Then started testing.
 
This is what I got so far.

 
4 griddles  - 1500 watts X 4 = 6000
1 roaster   - 1500 watts X 1 = 1500
Fridge       -     750 watts X 1 = 750
Freezer     -     750 watts X 1 = 750
Lights       -     100 watts X 1 = 100
 
Yeah that math seems to add up.
About 9000 running watts.
 
Anything more, and I popped the breaker on the generator.
 
So far, that seems like enough for a lunch service.
But not enough to do a festival.
 
Ran it till it ran out of gas.
Doing an oil change now.
 
Next test.
Try to quiet the beast down.


Hey, Just a thought here. But if possible, you should look into one of these to in place of two of those home style.
www.webstaurantstore.com/waring-wgr240-electric-countertop-griddle-28-240v/929WGR240.html
 
Its Setup as a 240v but the output and refresh rates are much better. Also the roasting pans are good for long time use but can be difficult to maintain supply during a busy lunch rush.
 
Not sure if it helps but I have been using an old US Treasury Money Bin as our hush box. it looks just like the ones they have in the new "Den of Thieves" movie. been thinking about re-enforcing it and mounting it to the front bumper.
 
Blakkmoon
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2018/01/27 12:13:59 (permalink)
Yup, thanks.
All that is is part of the plan.
 
The outlets are split 110v. So i can convert them to 220v in a few min.
JUST for that purpose.
220v would be more efficient.
 
Actually the one griddle in the middle that does not match the others is a Cadco light commercial unit. 
IT IS WAY HOTTER. And seems to stay hot.
That is the main unit.
Others are just going to be secondary and backup.
I don't foresee running more than 2 at a time.
MAYBE 3 at a festival.
But I better be really organized. 
 
I just want to make it through ONE season, and see what works and what doesn't.
 
Figure out how much equipment I need to run etc.
 
I don't want to drop $1000 on a griddle, to find out that customers like the pannini press better, or vice versa.
 
It's all experimental until I find a groove.
 
 
 
post edited by Blakkmoon - 2018/01/28 10:02:16
Blakkmoon
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2018/01/27 12:19:19 (permalink)
Up here, TRUCKS are considered to be a commercial kitchen.
So as long as we do everything on the truck, we do not need a commissary.
Roasting pans are meant more for PREP cooking in the truck.
In the early morning, I can in a couple of 20 pound turkeys and have them ready in a couple hours.
Then transfer them to the warmers. ( I did get a couple of commercial warmers )

 
I hope to be able to prep some in the morning, and maybe have another batch on the go while I am working.
 
Like the griddles...
The roasters are cheap, easy to get.
If it dies, I toss it and grab another one for $40.
I have a few as back up.
 
Even been playing with an instantpot. AMAZING.
Roast beef in 35 min.
Roast chicken breast in 15 min.
 
Even have a couple of 2 burner hotplates, and an induction plate.
 
The idea was ... instead of like when you have a fixed, mounted big heavy appliance....
I am able to swap equipment in and out as needed.
Plug in a couple of instant pots, make a batch of roast beef, done, put it away, next.
HOPEFULLY versatility and flexibility in a limited space.
 
Course....  not the first or last time I have been called a wack job!
 
So all in all.... just playin around till I get it right.
 
I DO appreciate the input !!
post edited by Blakkmoon - 2018/01/28 10:16:35
Uncle Groucho
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2018/01/27 12:35:44 (permalink)
Blakkmoon
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2018/01/27 16:31:44 (permalink)
Thanks.
Was planning to build one of those anyway.
 
Just trying to get the whole generator thing figured out.
Not surprising, but it's not going as well as I had hoped.
 
Playing with different configurations to quiet it down.
 
I got a hold of some 4 inch thick blue styrofoam insulation.
Trying to mimic a zombie box.
And yes it works pretty well.
 
Funny thing is that a layer of Roxul insulation seems to work even better. And much less bulk.
And a combination of the two does not really seem to improve it.
 
The generator itself can be quieted down fairly easily.
 
post edited by Blakkmoon - 2018/01/28 10:32:40
Blakkmoon
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2018/01/28 01:41:17 (permalink)
The problem with this unit is the exhaust.
 
I did up this extension to the factory muffler.

So I can port the exhaust out and to an external muffler.
And the external muffler is pretty quiet.
Most of the noise and heat are contained in the factory muffler.
 
I don't mind the noise being contained, but I hate the heat being trapped in there.
 
The other method was to build my own header for the generator.
I wrapped it in header wrap, and exited it out a long pipe.
 

 
** TIP**
If you ever use this stuff.....
I think when I ordered it, it was called "ceramic" header tape.
Well it might be infused with ceramic.
But let me tell you .... this stuff is FIBERGLASS!
Do NOT work with bare hands or exposed skin.
4 days later, and I am still itching.
Also, soaking it in water helps cut down the fibers and make it more pliable.
 
That took care of the heat problem, and the noise at the generator.
But the noise got pushed further down the pipe, and the big muffler could not take the noise.
It sounded like marbles rolling around inside the muffler.
 
Gonna try something else today.
post edited by Blakkmoon - 2018/04/15 11:16:19
cavemaneats
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2018/01/28 17:02:42 (permalink)
Its a solid plan, but I found that those Rival home ones never really could keep things going. Also if you are only looking to do a couple of sandwiches at a time. You may want to look into a plancha press(flat panini press). The one we have toasts in about 2min. Rather than the 8min griddle. Way easier to use too. And the 120v single unit we have works better than our 240v double panini press. 
Blakkmoon
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2018/01/28 18:34:02 (permalink)
 
What brand of plancha press did you have??
I got a panini press to play with as well.
I'm just morally oppose to flat sandwiches.
But I figured out a way to do it with silicone spacers
Blakkmoon
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2018/01/29 00:36:10 (permalink)
I have spent pretty much the last week or more working on this generator.
Mostly failed at many attempts.
But it's how I learn stuff.
 
I did lots of research, and took lots of hints from lots of different sites.
The design - attaching the extension to the factory muffler - was something I had seen on many sites.
I took it a step further, and instead of simply welding the muffler, I recreated the retaining ring that held in the factory spark arrestor screen, then welded the pipe to that.
This way I can remove it using the 3 factory screws.

 

 
I have ripped it down and put it back together in several different configurations all week.
 
I don't know why, but no matter what, the factory muffler MUST be used.
It seems to stop the harsh popping / banging noise.
Problem is, that is where a lot of the heat is collected.
And when it is directly attached to the engine head, it is SUPER hot.
post edited by Blakkmoon - 2018/05/15 23:41:20
Blakkmoon
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2018/01/29 00:58:19 (permalink)
The custom header was used to direct the heat away from the engine area.
It works because the muffler is not there to collect the heat.
So this time, I reworked the header, and attached the factory muffler further down the line.
THEN coupled that to the large truck muffler.
VOILA! Quiet exhaust!



 

 


 
I kept thinking that the big truck muffler would be all that was needed.
But I was wrong.
It needs to be a 2 stage set up.
 
 
 
So now I know how to quiet the exhaust, and the unit.
 
The next test will be the fuel system.
I want to be able to remove the factory tank, so that I can run the line directly from my trucks fuel tank.
I have one of these impulse fuel pumps.

 
So we will see how that goes next.
 
After that, I will re - build the header again so that it goes out the bottom of the generator frame so I can run it under the truck.
I plan to have the mufflers mounted under the body on the drivers side.
Hopefully from there, I can make up a genturi pipe, and exhaust near the roof line.
 
Then of course is the box.
I'm busy sketching thing out now that I understand the generator more, and how it moves the air around it for cooling.
From what I can tell, there is a built in fan, and it pushes a LOT of air over the engine.
So as long as I make sure to allow enough airflow, it should not NEED an electric fan.
 
 
post edited by Blakkmoon - 2018/05/15 23:44:23
410John
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2018/01/29 07:30:01 (permalink)
Seems like a bullet shaped glass pack muffler is the way to go. I'll figuring out something for my genny.
Blakkmoon
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2018/01/29 09:39:46 (permalink)
If I had one kicking around, or could have borrowed one to try, I certainly would have tried it.
But I was not forking over $75 to play with it.
I talked to a couple hot rodder buddies about them.
They are a straight through unit, designed for performance and free flow.
No baffles, not designed to be quiet.
My friends said that they are pretty much designed to be just barely enough to be legal,
and to muffle just a tiny bit, but give a nice low rumble sound.
 
Like I said, it seems to NEED the factory unit installed. 
Without it, just connected to a regular muffler, it sounded like the muffler was full of marbles.
I thought there was something wrong with it.
But no.
Not sure (technically) what the factory muffler does, but it works.
 
I actually found out by accident.
I tried a different muffler that I had from a lawn mower. Tiny little thing.
I put it before the big truck muffler, and it too took care of the harshness.
It was not quite good enough, but that proved that it NEEDED that style of muffler.
 
I want to tuck both mufflers up under the truck.
Hopefully figure out some kind of insulation under there to deaden the sound under there.
cavemaneats
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2018/01/30 20:07:21 (permalink)
Blakkmoon
 
What brand of plancha press did you have??
I got a panini press to play with as well.
I'm just morally oppose to flat sandwiches.
But I figured out a way to do it with silicone spacers


We have an older globe model single unit. But we got ours used for around $80, I know new ones go for much more. I understand the flat sandwich issue. That's why I'm not a fan of the panini press. but the plancha works well.
Blakkmoon
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2018/02/01 00:04:09 (permalink)
WOW!
Who doesn't love a road trip??
Helping get a buddy set up with his 1st hot dog cart biz.
He found a cart for a way better price.
Course it was 10 hours away.
He didn't want to lose out.
Hop in the truck the next morning and went and got it.
 
LITERALLY 10 hours straight through in a blinding snow storm.
50 mph winds.
All the up to the middle of butt fuzz nowheresville Saskatchewan.
Almost turned around a couple of times.
Took a wrong turn, and ended up crawling down some back country road for an hour or more plowing through snow drifts.
 
Miserable, but memorable!
 
Got a decent price.
Cart is reasonable. Needs a little work.
Good starter.
 
Trip home was less eventful. ( thankfully )
Tired.
 
And yes, the entire state of Florida is laughing at us.
post edited by Blakkmoon - 2018/02/03 09:40:26
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2018/02/05 10:35:07 (permalink)
Spent the rest of the week playing with different insulation combos and fuel pumps.
The thick styrofoam is not the way to go.
Just not quiet enough. Plus I think the noise echoes off the hard surface.
 
I found some stuff at the my local re-store.
Looks like this but it has a hard layer on one side.

It's 3 inches thick. Super compressed.
Not sure of the composition of the material.
Seems to be a cross between Roxul and fiberglass.
With that stuff, you can hardly here the generator at all.
So I am thinking this may be the way to go.
Maybe one more layer of the Roxul on the inside.
Then build a simple box around it.
 
 
Blakkmoon
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2018/02/05 10:46:16 (permalink)
I really want to eliminate the generator gas tank and run straight off the truck.
I read everything and watched all the you tube videos.
My conclusion is that this thing sucks....and not in a good way.

 
I kept thinking that I had a faulty unit. But it does pump fuel all over the floor when I test it.
So it seem ok.  It feeds the carb ok.
 
It seems that in order to work, the incoming fuel must come from a gravity fed source.
It will not DRAW fuel from a tank.
Even when primed.
 
So I tested the electric one.

 
According the my receipt, this thing "says" it is higher pressure than I should be using.
But I figured, what the heck, let's test anyway.
 
It purred like a kitten. No hiccups, no sputtering, no spilling.
PULLED fuel from my gas can with no issues.
Sposta draw only .02 amps.
 
This may just be the way to go.
Got on Ebay, ordered a few more and some shut off valves. 
 
Blakkmoon
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2018/02/15 11:59:43 (permalink)
a
post edited by Blakkmoon - 2018/04/15 12:52:29
Blakkmoon
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2018/02/15 12:00:16 (permalink)
.
post edited by Blakkmoon - 2018/04/15 13:02:01
hpx
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2018/02/15 17:22:59 (permalink)
I love your work dude. I keep directing people with questions to you as the expert on all things food truck. You should put together a book and sell it on EBAY. Seriously.
Blakkmoon
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2018/02/15 20:02:27 (permalink)
You are way too kind!
You know I have not done this before.


I am by no means an expert.
Heck just look at those crappy welds on the tail pipe piece.
Forgot to turn on the gas :)
 
Like I have said from the start.
I don't let the fact that I don't know what I am doing stop me.
 
Heck, you should see the multi station fume extraction system I just built for the wife's classroom.
THAT was impressive. Works like a dream.
All for a under a couple hundred bucks.  
kofemi
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2018/02/16 09:43:28 (permalink)
WOW U R AWESOME , I WISH YOU WERE MY NEIGHBOR LMAO .
Blakkmoon
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2018/03/17 00:25:22 (permalink)
So I have not posted in a while.
I WAS spending time in the garage finishing my generator box.
Got it finished.
Inside coated with fire retardant paint.
Nicely insulated.
Baffles for sound reduction.
Fans for air circulation.

 

 
 
With it all closed up.
You pretty much can't hear the generator at all.
 
But I kept having issues with the exhaust.
And even the tiniest little exhaust leak was LOUD.
 
Could not seem to get it the way I wanted it.
I suppose the next step would be to weld every joint of the exhaust I built.
Maybe that would fix it.
 
 
post edited by Blakkmoon - 2018/05/15 23:46:42
Blakkmoon
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2018/03/17 00:51:42 (permalink)
I figured I was going to need a secondary genny anyway for running my portable air conditioner and maybe some electronics.
Last week I was in Minneapolis, and Harbor Freight had those 3500 inverter gennys on sale for under $700.
 


I figured I would test it out at the hotel.
 
Well F - ME!
This thing was the quietest darn thing I never heard.    Where has THIS been all my life??
It's kinda like a loud kitten purrin away.  I mean--- I had NO idea it was THAT quiet.
It gets a lotta good reviews. ( except from Honda lovers )
A lot of people say its quieter than their honda.
I can't speak to that, but you can check out this video.
This IS pretty much what it is like in real life.
 
Wish I had done this from the start.
 
Will i get years and years out of it like you are supposed to with a Honda?
Probably not.
Honda 7000 (peak) 5500 watts running = $5000.00 plus taxes = $5650.  ( in my town )
Predator  3500 X 2 = 7000 ( peak ) 6000 running = $700 usd tax in  ( 917 cad x2 =  $1834 )
I plan to buy 2 more so, I will be into it for $3668. Plus another $160 for parallel kits.
I will have to reconfigure a few things.
I only have to run what I need.
I figure  2 or 3 on a regular day. 3 or 4 on a heavy day.
They only weigh about 100 pounds.  So no problem putting them on the rear platform.
 
I still plan to build some kind of enclosure for them.
Keep the weather / rain off them.
Keep them from being seen.
 
 
 
 
 
Blakkmoon
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2018/03/17 01:06:01 (permalink)
I still want the exhaust pointed away and up so no body has to breath it.
 
Started building the exhaust extensions.
 
Found these at Fleet Farm for about $3.

A little drilling out the holes and they fit perfect.

Got a 1 inch diameter threaded nipple.

Cut it in half on the bandsaw.
 
Welded it to the flange.

It needed the 1 inch wide nipple to go over the exhaust port.

I welded on an extension and a 90 degree bend. ( all black pipe )
 
Perfect fit.

I'm going to add an extension pipe and build an exhaust manifold to connect them to below the platform.

Then the manifold will be connected to a muffler and then to a venturi pipe and finally pointed out the top of the truck.
 
There is very little heat from these things.
You can hold your hand over the exhaust or put your hand on the valve cover while it is running.
It's hot, but not enough to burn you.
Almost no exhaust pressure.
 
Unlike that big champion.
 
So this is the new plan.  Fingers crossed.
 
 
 
 
 
post edited by Blakkmoon - 2018/05/15 23:49:31
KrackerKev
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2018/03/25 15:42:06 (permalink)
Those generators are indeed crazy quiet. I bought 2 of them on sale for my build aswell, the sale price basically coverred the tax to get em back into canada lol. Im torn between where and how to mount them right now. Pretty sure Id like to detach them from the truck when in use, but they arent feather light as Im sure youve noticed when gassed up. 
 
I may build them into the front bumper or under the truck on the rear drivers side. But I was hoping to mount my breaker panel in the cab where you did for your build so having them in the front seems like a good idea, and furthest from customers when running. I also need to fab a new front bumper anyways, original is deeply rusted. 
 
I dont have a bumper on the rear either but plan to keep it that way, since I dont have propane or anything hanging off the back, might aswell keep the truck as short as possible if possible. Do you have any plans for bumper builds? I think I remember a few pages back a friend found you a new shiny front bumper.
 
I ran my gensets for the 8 hours each in a few intervals running space heaters and they ran perfect no hiccups. First oil change was good looking. Seem like awesome units
 
 
 
 
 
Blakkmoon
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2018/03/26 01:18:28 (permalink)
I already started to build a platform in the back of the truck.
I knew I would be using more than 1 genny no matter how it went.
I just have to modify it a bit now.   Don't have any pics of it for some unknown reason.

I don't personally like the look of mounting gennys on the front.    It's bad enough in the back.
I would mount underneath if I could, but I can't.
They are only about 100 pounds ish.
So pretty light compared to many.
Lifting it on and off the bench certainly starts to hurt the back after the 9th or 10th time.
But I gotta mod it.
 
You can put your breaker panel anywhere you like, it's just a matter of running a longer line.
I used 6 gauge shielded. 
Would have been $30 ish if the panel was in the kitchen area.
But it was more like $75 ish and it's out of the way.
Not a big expense.
 
I bought the Champion parallel kit to use on them.
I also plan to get 2 more.
There is enough room on the back to hold all 4.
 
If I had known I was going to go this route in the beginning....
I would have run 2 smaller panels.
But I will just have to figure it out.
 
As I am modifying the rear platform, I am making a light enclosure.
A little bit to block some noise, but mostly to keep the gennys out of the elements and out of sight.
They may not be Honda's but thieves aint too bright.
 
It's kind of a butcher/hack job.
But it's trial and error.
I'll figure out what works and maybe rebuild it next year.
 
Still need to be able to take them off pretty easy to change the oil regularly.
 
Had to totally re do the exhaust pipe.
Almost got the manifold figured out so it's a quick disconnect for oil changes.
 
I think I finally figured out how to make it work plumbed into my truck fuel tank.
Have to run another test tomorrow.
Blakkmoon
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  • Joined: 2015/11/06 20:16:00
  • Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, , XX
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2018/03/27 00:22:18 (permalink)
The thing I love about welding, as opposed to working with wood is that wood is finite.
Measure 2 or 3 times cut once.  Too short? New piece and start again.
Welding.... not so much.
Screw up or change your mind or get a new idea....  just keep going.
Cut it too short, just add a little and keep welding.

My exhaust port worked, but I used a 1 inch pipe.
It was too big, and exhaust was leaking out the sides of it.
Sliced it apart on the bandsaw, and replaced the 1 inch nipple with a 3/4 inch coupling.
It did not quite fit over the factory exhaust pipe.
So I used the die grinder to shave off the inner threads.
 

 
Now it's a nice snug fit.

Re- welded it to the flange.
 
 
Made sure to add generous amounts of high temp gasket maker because the factory muffler has some ridges.
Didn't want to take any chances this time.
 




post edited by Blakkmoon - 2018/04/15 11:13:42
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