Helpful ReplyHot!Master Plan, Part Deux ....

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Inferno
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2017/03/05 15:21:48 (permalink)
I noticed your work table does not have any doors, how are you going to keep stuff from flying out?
 
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Blakkmoon
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2017/03/05 23:38:51 (permalink)
Inferno
I noticed your work table does not have any doors, how are you going to keep stuff from flying out?
 


Call me crazy.... but I was thinkin    maybe....  I would.....  --  get this ---  add some doors....  " />" />
 
Just messing with ya!!
 
The plan has always been to put in sliding doors on everything possible.
 
Even got some nice warm weather today, so I put most of the tables and stuff inside the truck to get a better feel for the layout.
 
I can do floor plans and 3d models till my brain melts, but nothing is a good as a dry run to see what ReaLLY works.
 
Of course we are all getting hit with this big storm coming in the next day or two, so work will slow right down again.
 
post edited by Blakkmoon - 2017/03/05 23:47:21
#32
Inferno
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2017/03/09 12:45:56 (permalink)
It would be nice to put a backsplash on the back of that table, otherwise should work really well. I have a 10' long ss table I'm getting ready to put in mine, big and bulky.
#33
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2017/03/26 12:24:56 (permalink)
Inferno
It would be nice to put a backsplash on the back of that table, otherwise should work really well. I have a 10' long ss table I'm getting ready to put in mine, big and bulky.


Thanks, I will try to remember to do that.
#34
Blakkmoon
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2017/03/26 12:35:46 (permalink)
So I have been too busy actually trying to build the window to do any posting about it.
Just getting back to it....  or too lazy to outside and work.
Some days, it's really hard to get motivated.
 
I can see why people would not want to DIY this.
WAY more than I bargained for.
But onward and upward.
 
Here is the whole long story so far.
 
After getting a price of around $2500 plus taxes (13%) for a serving window to get it done locally.... I decided to go a DIY route.
Even trying to get something out of the USA was going to end up close to the 2 grand range after exchange and shipping, and then I still had to pay taxes across the boarder.
 
I have never done anything like this, I have never welded aluminum...
I really had no clue what I was doing or how it was going to go.
But why should that stop me right?
 
I was able to get a single pane aluminum slider window at the local Re-Store.
Actually got 3 of them - all matching.... for about $45.
The glass is useless, because it breaks when you look at it.
So it will be replaced with plexi glass. Optix brand. - ended up about $130.
 
The window was already 3 ft high, and 5 ft wide.
I took some sage advice, and decided to make it as big as possible...
This is where the crazy comes in.
The plexi is 44 inches high.
So instead of cutting the plexi to fit the frame...
Let's re-engineer the frame to fit the plexi.
Take the original window frame, cut it, splice in a section from the 2nd window frame, weld it back together and smooth it all out so it looks close to factory.
No problem.  yeah right...
 
Here is a shot of the first cut and test fit.
 

 
Now welded together and smoothed out.

 
 
The welding went really well, only took a few tries to get the feel for welding aluminum.
Besides, aluminum fills the mistakes really good and once its cleaned up, you cant tell.
 

 
The hardest part was the waiting....
My welder is not set up for aluminum, so I had to go to a buddy's place.
Only 5 minutes to do the weld.  But I could only do it once a week.  So when I made a mistake or had to change something.....or welded the wrong side - DUH..  I had to wait a week before I could fix it.
All in all, it was probably only an hour of two of work.
That was the INNER frame that will house the sliding window and screen.
 
Next..
On to the OUTER frame.
This will house the flip up canopy.
So same deal... it needs to go from 36 inches tall to 44 inches tall.
With the added bonus of removing the grooves ( extrusions? ) that the windows sat in.
So this is the side view of the frame before.
 

 
I first ran it through the table saw to take off that extrusion.
 

 
Then smoothed it with a grinder and flapp disc.
Then cut, weld, and clean up.
This is a shot of the welded seam.
 

 
And a shot of the outer frame, test fit together.
 

 
I DID try to paint the frame and keep it white, but it really sucked.
So I spent a couple hours with the wire wheel, and took off all the paint.

 

 

 
 
Did the same to the inner frame.  No more paint.

 

 
 
The plexi was its own kind of challenge.
Even though I went with 1/4 inch thick stuff, it was still pretty bendy.
I siliconed some 3/8 extruded channel to both ends.
That worked well.
The wrinkled stuff is just the shipping saran wrap.
 

 
I was able to re-use some of the original aluminum sections from the original glass.
The parts that had the little fuzzy strips on them.
So that when the window slides back and forth, it doesn't scratch.
A little more silicone and a couple of days to dry.
 

 
I siliconed the window to one side of the frame so it did not move.
I only need one side to slide open.
I got one of those DIY screens from home depot.
The quality is pretty crappy, but it will work for now.
 

 
This is the unit all assembled.
 

 
I added a piano hinge to the outer frame to hold the canopy.
 

 
Started to construct the canopy.
3/8 plywood.
Sliliconed some aluminum sheet to one side. and clamped and weighted those whole thing to cure for a couple of days.

#35
NOSHp20
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2017/03/26 16:14:48 (permalink)
You want a back door no matter what for cross ventilation, and to escape in case of an emergency... and yes equipment. Once my equipment is loaded, only one side will be usable due to gen unit. Window looks good BTW, keep going!
post edited by NOSHp20 - 2017/03/26 16:16:38
#36
Inferno
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2017/03/27 18:26:02 (permalink)
Nice job on the windows, how much will you have into them when all done?
#37
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2017/03/27 20:43:50 (permalink)
Inferno
Nice job on the windows, how much will you have into them when all done?


Thanks
 
Estimate-
Frames = 45
Plexi = 130
Trim = 40
Silicone = 20
Hinge = 10
Struts = 30
Plywood = 11
Welding = Couple of wobbly pops
Labor = Priceless!
 
So far under $250.00
 
The rest should just be the installation labor
 
#38
Inferno
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2017/03/27 22:25:42 (permalink)
Not a bad price, I think my windows cost $1000 each for 4'x7' which includes a marque. Just make sure to use RVT round the flash when mounting it and a ton of silcone around the edges.
#39
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2017/03/28 00:58:38 (permalink)
Yeah 1000 is reasonable. Especially after all this work.
But for me - being up in Canada, then I got pay to ship to the boarder.  Usually a couple hundred.
Then add about 33 % for exchange.
Plus add another 13% on top of that for Canadian taxes.
So that puts me around $1800 ish.
So for a couple hundred, it was worth trying to do.
Heck even if I can't make it work, at least its only a couple hundred.
But so far it looks like its working.
Still have to cut out the hole and mount everything.  
Hopefully this week.
#40
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2017/03/28 22:44:45 (permalink)
Did you everything of renting garage space here in the states, drive e your truck down to it and do all of the work there, then just drive it across the border back home. Might save you a lot of money, you can take advantage of our pricing for your building. The truck build would have to be a excelerated process, like in a month. Just trying to think outside the box.
#41
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2017/03/29 00:13:44 (permalink)
Can honestly say I never thought of that one.
 
I can't even begin to imagine the kind of paperwork I would have to go through to get it back here.
 
I do as much of my shopping for parts on ebay & amazon, and get it delivered to a depot on the US side.
I was just down there last week to pick up a bunch of stuff.
But I only do it when it makes sense.
I have to be saving at least 50% after exchange to make it worth my time.
 
The plexi glass was not worth getting there. Less than $50 difference.
But the fresh water tank - About $100 delivered.  Up here would have been over $500.
Same with the hot water tank.  $150 ish down there. $450 ish here.
 
So yeah, shop smart, save where ever possible.
 
Also, I could never leave for a month.
I have my vending biz, and we have my wife's store as well.
 
Luckily its getting warmer here now.
Its been at least a week since we had minus 20 :)
Daytime temps are finally getting pretty warm.
 
Now I just need to get motivated.
#42
acain
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2017/03/29 08:43:03 (permalink)
I admire your tenacity. You sound alot like me, with your determination to just damn well MAKE something work. even if it shouldnt. Its a quality to be proud of, so I wish you the best of luck. Dont give up for any reason. My proplem has always been , with things like this, that the challenge of the accomplishment fuels my motivation. Its my high. But about the time the dream seems like its becomming reality, the challenge isnt there any more and I begin to bog down.
For most of my life I thought it was what people called "fear of success" , wich is total BS ... Im just curios if youve had the same experiance, and if so, how do you plan on combatting it?
#43
NOSHp20
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2017/03/29 09:13:14 (permalink)
I think that all the DYI builders go through problems and frustrations during the course of their builds. I feel like I have been foot dragging on mine, and at times didn't think I'd find a solution to problems encountered.
We can all learn from each other and share in the knowledge that your not alone in your experience or problems.
Keeping costs down when possible is difficult, and being able to fabricate from scraps or what ever helps. Keep up the good work!
#44
Blakkmoon
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2017/03/29 09:31:02 (permalink)
Oooohhh  we could have loooong conversations   
 
Yup, by far, I love the challenge more than anything.  Fix the problem, solve the puzzle, never say die....NEXT.
Hate asking for help....HATE HATE HATE having to pay someone else to do something...
especially when they do it a crappy job of it!! ( professional my sweet patootie !! )
 
I don't THINK I have a fear of success.  I just get really board after I have it all working and need to move on.
I do NEED the challenge enough that I always have multiple projects on the go, and that often leads to things not getting finished.  ( my bathroom )
HHHMM... now I wonder if I unknowingly leave some projects unfinished so that I ALWAYS have something to be working on..... or have a project to go back to...  even if its just in my head.....   good therapy session.....
 
But THIS current lack of motivation seems to be more from my seasonal Mr. Pissy Pants thing.
I get pretty bad in spring and fall.  And yeah, I know what a doctor would call it.  
But I refuse to label it, or give in to it.
 
Double and triple my vitamin intake.  5 X coffee intake!
Some days, just stop the WORK, play hooky, and go visit some friends.  ( been doing that a lot this time )
Work a little slower.  It doesn't have to be finished NOW.
Like it or not, the sun still rises tomorrow.
Power through it.   It won't last too long.   If it does, then my wife kicks my a$$.
 
On really bad days, believe it or not, chocolate actually does help. ( I don't even like chocolate )
My wife says I'm such a girl.
#45
NOSHp20
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2017/03/29 20:12:06 (permalink)
Well said... today I ordered grey water tanks (yes two) because I just don't have the room for one to pass with the HD. So our next grind is the water system! After that propane, and the finish up punch list. My hope is to see the HD inspector in coming weeks. (I know better that put date on that!)
The things I've learned on this project, well lets not get started, but I can say there are many new"tags" hung on the little hooks in my head.
#46
Blakkmoon
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2017/03/29 20:37:41 (permalink)
WOW ...how big do your tanks have to be?
Ours only need to be 35% bigger.
 
My grey water tank was OK'ed by the HD.
But they "suggested" I re-evaluate my fresh water and hot water tank.
 
Now I have a 30 gallon fresh tank and a 7 gallon hot water tank.  
I musta lucked out, because I got the HWT for $150 and free shipping ( in the usa )
#47
Inferno
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2017/03/29 21:36:54 (permalink)
I'm going through a Service Base inspection on Friday by my HD. Then hopefully in about another week or so I get a State inspection on my truck to get my state mobile license. Spent the last few days cleaning the garage out from all of the construction materials  to satisfy the HD. What a pain!
#48
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2017/03/29 21:41:46 (permalink)
Oh Yeah, I bought my water tanks from ppmotorhomes, just in case anybody is looking for a good deal. 30 gal and 42gal for $178 total including the shipping.
 
#49
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2017/03/29 22:07:31 (permalink)
Purchased a 20 gal and a 43 gal grey water tanks.... ours is 35% like yours.. but chose two tanks to have extra capacity for longer service... I think the fresh side of things is around 18-20 gals with six in the hot water heater. Fresh mounts inside, again no more room down under...
#50
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2017/03/29 22:19:04 (permalink)
I actually put a second grey tank under my hand washing sink, its on the opposite side of my wash sinks.
#51
Blakkmoon
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2017/03/30 00:46:58 (permalink)
Hmmm...   Nosh... how are you setting them up?
Are they going to be connected?
One overflow into the other??
If so, smaller one or larger one as the primary??
 
You kinda got me thinking now....
When I first started this, the plan was different ( so was the truck )
I have a 16 gallon tank that was for the 1st plan, but now I was not going to use it.
But I think I like the idea of a 2nd waste tank.
#52
NOSHp20
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2017/03/30 08:40:41 (permalink)
Current plan is smaller tank to hand wash sink in back, and larger to three bay sink in front. (wheel well and leaf spring perchs determined locations for me)  No plans to inter-connect them at this time. I had to re-locate my entire exhaust system to the left side frame to avoid any problems installing the tanks. (Had full factory duals) Again figured going big would help on long service days. We also may purchase a portable tank to empty both into if doing a long service dictates that.
 
#53
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2017/03/30 16:23:14 (permalink)
Nosh, no need for a portable tank to empty into, just crack open your drain valve a little and let the water run out. The sun dry up the water. Its not like its coming from a black water tank.
#54
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2017/04/01 11:20:02 (permalink)
Working on the window.
As you know ...For better or worse, I'm doing a custom window, made to fit the truck.
As opposed to ordering a standard size and cutting the opening to fit the window.
 
So here is how it is going so far.
 
Because it was -25 outside when I started this.
I just measured where I wanted the window.
Then built the window in the garage.
Thought I had it all covered.
Measured down to and 1/8 th of an inch.
 
Built a mock up frame in the garage to test fit stuff. ( which actually worked pretty well ) 

 
Then I cut the opening for the window.
 
Just before the last cut.....

 
My goal was to preserve as much of the structural beams as possible.
 
Here is the nice big opening...

 
 
But I forgot to account for LIP that was part of the beam.

 
 
I guess I could have cut the lip off.
But that is where the rivets are.
Without the lip, the beams are kinda useless.
 
I guess this is where I am lucky that I am making the window from scratch - ish.
I trimmed the window frame to match the opening.

The frame even had these large flanges for mounting that had to be trimmed back about 3/8 of an inch. About where the holes are, because they would not allow the frame to sit against the lip/beam.

 
 
Also had to trim the frame width about 3/8 of an inch.
That part was easy.
But it means now I have to trim the canopy to match.
3/8 plywood, sandwiched between 2 layers of aluminum.

HOPEFULLY it goes well.  
Just waiting for the garage to warm up because it went down below zero again last night.
Good thing I had not yet glued the trim on.
 
My other concern is the overall weight of the canopy.
I mean... it's not 50 lbs. But it does fell kinda heavy.
I am concerned that the gas shock might not hold it....
If I can figure out how to mount them.
post edited by Blakkmoon - 2017/04/01 11:49:13
#55
NOSHp20
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2017/04/01 11:42:22 (permalink)
Gas lift cylinders are rated for lift & hold capability. You should be able to order lifts with brackets included (Amazon or other) that will easily support the canopy. The two that came with my window are so strong the canopy almost slams open.
I have to be careful opening it or get wacked!
post edited by NOSHp20 - 2017/04/01 11:44:47
#56
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2017/04/01 11:52:36 (permalink)
I have 60 lbs struts, with a 12 inch lift.
My thought was... 2 struts x 60 lbs = 120 lbs.
But I don't know if that's actually how it works.
#57
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2017/04/01 15:15:58 (permalink)
Blakkmoon
I have 60 lbs struts, with a 12 inch lift.
My thought was... 2 struts x 60 lbs = 120 lbs.
But I don't know if that's actually how it works.


That is more than enough for the load your going to carry.
#58
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2017/04/01 20:52:54 (permalink)
I trimmed the canopy about 3/4 inch in width.
Trimmed the the aluminum channel trim to match.
Test fit in my mock frame.
So far so good.

But the weight thing was still buggin me.
Dug out a scale.  Found some fresh batteries.... did a weigh in. 45 pounds.
I dunno, maybe I'm just a little paranoid...  But that seems like a lot.
 
I have these visions... 4 x 5 sheet of plywood@ 45 lbs....  strut lets go.... screw breaks....  this thing comes swingin down from 10 feet up.... clocks some big mofo in the back of the noggin....
More weight on all the parts is more stress.
 
I still want to keep the structure of the canopy so it's not a flimsy P.O.S.
So I carve out the center with the skill saw.  
Leaving a good amount of wood for structure.

Now it's down to 20 pounds.  Still pretty solid.
Next, I test it all on the mock frame, and it feels WAY better.
WAY less stress on the screw and hinges.
 

 
Next I inlay some pink insulation.
Laminate both sides with aluminum sheet again, and bobs yer uncle.

 
 
Now the stupid thing is probably too light for the struts!!
 
I even managed to get the outer frame mounted on the truck.
Once all the glues and silicone dries I should be able to mount the canopy. Tomorrow.
#59
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Re: Master Plan, Part Deux .... 2017/04/01 21:42:14 (permalink)
On the shocks, you are going to want to build locking  braces just in case the shocks give. This will save you from knocking out your customers.
 
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