Hot!My newbie propane problems...

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410John
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2017/12/15 11:43:15 (permalink)

My newbie propane problems...

This is my first go at this. I have two 40lb cylinders. Only using one right now. I can't even get the pilots to light on my range. I can get an initial flow of gas for a few seconds, then the flame goes out. I'm using appliance yellow hoses with the check valve from my manifold. If I crack the connection after the check valve, gas flows. It seems like it's the regulator stopping the flow. It's a new two burner range with the supplied regulator. Converted to propane. Similar set up on the fryer. No high pressure regulator outside at the cylinders. Just two appliances and two seperate regulators. Pics to follow.
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    410John
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    Re: My newbie propane problems... 2017/12/15 11:47:59 (permalink)


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    edwmax
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    Re: My newbie propane problems... 2017/12/15 15:58:39 (permalink)
    If I understand what you stated  .... you don't have a regulator at the tank.   Therefore, you have tank pressure in the supply lines all the way to the low pressure appliance regulator.  
     
    Put a standard regulator at the tanks!  The supply lines should be at 11 to 14 inch water column  pressure.   Then the appliance low pressure regulators will step the pressure down from there.   ... Check appliance manual are the correct supply line pressure. I'm sure it is not Tank pressure!
     
    #3
    hpx
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    Re: My newbie propane problems... 2017/12/15 16:14:45 (permalink)
    "It's a new two burner range with the supplied regulator. Converted to propane." who converted this? Are you 100% it has the right jet?  
    #4
    410John
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    Re: My newbie propane problems... 2017/12/15 17:31:46 (permalink)
    I did the conversion. Pretty simple. I would think the pilot wouldn't be affected my the conversion.
    I guess the high pressure coming into the regulator setting off a safety or something. I'll add a high pressure reg outside.
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    edwmax
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    Re: My newbie propane problems... 2017/12/15 18:55:10 (permalink)
    410John
    I did the conversion. Pretty simple. I would think the pilot wouldn't be affected my the conversion.
    I guess the high pressure coming into the regulator setting off a safety or something. I'll add a high pressure reg outside.



    So you did not have a regulator at the tank and did have tank pressure in the supply line.   The high pressure over powered the low pressure appliance regulators.
     
    I suggest that you read this reference for LPG regulators.   [https://gashosesandregula...paneregulatorfacts.php
    You need to add up the total BTU per hour each appliance needs to get the proper size regulator.    I suspect you may need a high pressure adjustable regulator.
    #6
    410John
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    Re: My newbie propane problems... 2017/12/16 21:01:18 (permalink)
    I added a 1122H-AAJ first stage regulator. It has a 0,69 bar outlet pressure and still trips the second regulator. I adjusted the first stage regular and no improvements. I can light the range without the secondary regulator. This is driving me crazy.
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    edwmax
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    Re: My newbie propane problems... 2017/12/16 21:38:53 (permalink)
    What is the model number of the range and fryer?
    What size are the yellow gas connector hoses and what is the BTU rating?     These have an excess flow safety and could be stopping the gas flow if too small.
    post edited by edwmax - 2017/12/16 22:04:34
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    410John
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    Re: My newbie propane problems... 2017/12/16 21:48:22 (permalink)
    Ace court HP212 Range and a Dean SR42 fryer
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    410John
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    Re: My newbie propane problems... 2017/12/16 21:51:21 (permalink)
    A local hardware store had the first stage reg that I picked up, today. I was surprised they had it. It does say needs to work with a second stage regulator. I just don't get why to supplied reg can't handle the input pressure. When I release line pressure I sometimes hear a click in the regulator. I'm pretty sure it's resetting.
    post edited by 410John - 2017/12/16 21:54:49
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    edwmax
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    Re: My newbie propane problems... 2017/12/16 22:22:44 (permalink)
    You stated that you installed the LPG orifice to convert from NG to LPG.     Did you also change the appliance regulator from NG to LPG?
    #11
    410John
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    Re: My newbie propane problems... 2017/12/16 22:37:48 (permalink)
    Yes did both
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    410John
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    Re: My newbie propane problems... 2017/12/16 22:59:47 (permalink)
    I'm thinking I just have mismatched parts. Everything is new. I propane have to decide what to keep and what to toss.
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    edwmax
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    Re: My newbie propane problems... 2017/12/16 23:01:45 (permalink)
    410John
    I added a 1122H-AAJ first stage regulator. It has a 0,69 bar outlet pressure and still trips the second regulator. I adjusted the first stage regular and no improvements. I can light the range without the secondary regulator. This is driving me crazy.

    410John
    A local hardware store had the first stage reg that I picked up, today. I was surprised they had it. It does say needs to work with a second stage regulator. I just don't get why to supplied reg can't handle the input pressure. When I release line pressure I sometimes hear a click in the regulator. I'm pretty sure it's resetting.




    I think you need a 2 stage regulator at the tank.   the 1st stage lowers tank pressure to 10 psi;  The 2nd stage lowers the pressure to  6" to 14" water column (adjustable).    The 2 burner range needs 6"to 10" water column input.      ... OR, if the supply line is a long run, the 2nd stage regulator can be installed just before your manifold.    I think you are working in a trailer or truck setup so a 2 stage regulator at the tank should be the better and simpler.   I also, assume your supply line to the manifold is 3/4" dia & the 2 stage regulator must be sized for the total BTU used by all gas appliances.
    #14
    edwmax
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    Re: My newbie propane problems... 2017/12/16 23:04:36 (permalink)
    The 10 psi pressure from the first stage regulator is over powering the appliance low pressure regulator.
     
    #15
    edwmax
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    Re: My newbie propane problems... 2017/12/16 23:14:14 (permalink)
    The Dean Fryer indicates it doe not need a regulator.  So it should work on normal 10"-11" water column line pressure with 3/4" dia piping connection..
    post edited by edwmax - 2017/12/16 23:36:27
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    410John
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    Re: My newbie propane problems... 2017/12/17 12:33:09 (permalink)
    I removed the high pressure regulataor and replaced it with one I had. It's only 135,000 btu, though. I am ordering a larger two stage reg. I also, removed both regulators at the appliances. The range seems to work well.
    Ok, now about the fryer. Just for testing, does the fryer need oil in it for the pilot to work? I'm new at this. But can't get it to light. Thanks
    #17
    410John
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    Re: My newbie propane problems... 2017/12/17 13:10:11 (permalink)
    Nevermind, I got the pilot light for a quick test. Roaring little fella.
    All figured out. Thanks for all the info.
    #18
    edwmax
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    Re: My newbie propane problems... 2017/12/17 15:19:27 (permalink)
    The installation manual for the Dean SR42 fryer indicates it does not come with a regulator and works with standard 11" WC line pressure.   11" WC is only .397 psi.
     
    The appliance regulator for the range probably only slightly reduce the supply line pressure so the burner control knobs would have finer heat control and insured a smooth gas flow to the burners.  I think you should reinstall that one when you get the bigger tank regulator.
     
     
    #19
    cavemaneats
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    Re: My newbie propane problems... 2017/12/17 17:09:04 (permalink)
    410John
    Ok, now about the fryer. Just for testing, does the fryer need oil in it for the pilot to work? I'm new at this. But can't get it to light. Thanks

    To answer your question. No, you don't NEED to have oil in the fryer to light the pilot. But if you are looking to turn the burners on, you'll need enough "fluid" (can use water for testing purposes) to fill about an inch past the burners(with oil fill to the recommended fill line).
    Start by turning the regulator knob to PILOT while the thermostat is at -0- , Then push the regulator knob in and hold it for a couple seconds(I go for 5 Mississippi). Then, using a flame stick style lighter(compressed butane is the best), light the -Y- or -T- shaped pilot burner. Once lit, you'll need to hold the regulator knob down for about 20 seconds, then release. If the flame goes out repeat until the flame stays on. The flame should be between 1/2" -    1 1/2" inches and have a blue color. Now turn the regulator knob to the on position. And at this point turn the thermostat till the flames come on at about 250deg F. Use a digital stemmed thermometer to confirm temperature. (Note: if you used water for testing the thermometer will only go up to 215deg F, as that is boiling temp for water.). Otherwise for those using oil confirm each temperature by 50-75deg F on the thermostat all the way to 400deg. Also depending on the type of oil used you will want to confirm the maximum sustainable temperature that oil can hold. Oils with low flash points will be different than those with high flash points. Do not use oils like olive, coconut, or table vegetable oil to deep fry.
    Hope this helps.
    post edited by cavemaneats - 2017/12/23 12:21:09
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    410John
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    Re: My newbie propane problems... 2017/12/18 10:06:58 (permalink)
    All good information. Thank you!
    I think reinstalling that regulator is a good idea, thanks.
    #21
    edwmax
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    Re: My newbie propane problems... 2017/12/19 07:35:01 (permalink)
    It could be these appliance regulators are safety devices.   ... Other words they prevent excess gas flow to the appliances either due to leaks or excess pressure.     The regulators working as intended.    ...   Check the model numbers on each and lookup the manufacture's info online.  Reinstall if this is the case.
    #22
    410John
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    Re: My newbie propane problems... 2017/12/19 10:37:42 (permalink)
    Re installed the regulator for the range. Works better. The flame adjustment is more manageable.
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    NOSHp20
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    Re: My newbie propane problems... 2017/12/19 10:53:49 (permalink)
    I had a similar problem with out LPG converted appliances. A bogus first stage single reg allowed pilots to light and then go go out. Replaced with another new TWO stage reg and problem solved, lesson learned!
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    410John
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    Re: My newbie propane problems... 2018/01/03 11:22:19 (permalink)
    Regulator shopping. My temporary regulator lists min input of 10psi and a max of 250psi. Most that I see list a max input of 10 psi for two stage units. Is that enough? I'm using twin 40lb cylinders. With the option of running both at the same time.
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    edwmax
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    Re: My newbie propane problems... 2018/01/03 18:38:27 (permalink)
    410John
    Regulator shopping. My temporary regulator lists min input of 10psi and a max of 250psi. Most that I see list a max input of 10 psi for two stage units. Is that enough? I'm using twin 40lb cylinders. With the option of running both at the same time.



    Off the tank (aka: tank pressure) the pressure can be as high as 250 psi.    Tank pressure varies due to ambient air temperature and direct sun radiant heat.   So tank pressure varies from about 100/150 psi to 250 psi.   ... The 10psi to 250 psi is a 1st stage regulator.    The 10 psi input regulators are second stage regulators.
    #26
    410John
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    Re: My newbie propane problems... 2018/01/04 08:01:42 (permalink)
    Thanks for the info. Helpful, as always. You'd be surprised who many of the max 10psi are listed as first stage regulators.
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    410John
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    Re: My newbie propane problems... 2018/01/17 12:17:34 (permalink)
    Installed the two stage and all works well!
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    edwmax
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    Re: My newbie propane problems... 2018/01/17 17:04:59 (permalink)
     
    ...      ...
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    kofemi
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    Re: My newbie propane problems... 2018/02/15 11:52:26 (permalink)
    I just went " /> reading this thread , this is going to be a crazy journey thank u 410John I am learning a lot even tho it's kind of scaring me this is also preparing me . @Edwmax u r very nice and I wish u lot of success cuz u really take time to help others. 
    #30
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