NYCity Roadfood Tour--1947 AD

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the ancient mariner
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2005/12/18 15:41:36 (permalink)

NYCity Roadfood Tour--1947 AD

While replying to some posts on another topic (NYC 60's/70's/80's which is in the Chicken department by mistake) it occured to me that I probably did the very first Roadfood tour while in my second year at Manhattan College.

While talking about "the city" with some dorm mates from out of state they asked me to take them on a tour. I explained that anyone could find the Empire State Bldg, The Statue of Liberty and Times Square by themselves but I would show them the real city. So on a day off we hopped on the subway from the very top of Manhattan and ended up downtown, at the foot of the Williamsburg Bridge---Houston Street. Filled with people going in all directions and loaded with pushcarts and shops selling anything you could imagine. One of the kids was from Guam and had no idea New York had a Jewish Section. It was exciting and so was the pastrami on rye. We followed them up with irresistable charlotte rousses (spelling may be incorrect but that pile of whipped cream was not to be denied).

From there we took a trolley ride to Chinatown where we followed the whipped cream with egg rolls------ then we crossed Canal St into Little Italy and from there to Greenwich Village. From early in the day until supper time I walked them around neighborhoods looking into shop windows, at book stores, at deli's, at bakeries, at meat marketsm, at Chinese, Jews and Italians, and God knows what else. In the village we had dinner in a jazz joint --- dinner was not so hot but the music was fantastic. Food is always OK when your stomping your foot.

From there we took another subway up to 3rd Avenue under the El. We visited some of the Irish pubs and met a few slumming college girls.
----------All's well that ends well.

Don't ask me for the names of the restaurants---or the girls----they are long gone--NYCity is still there but "It ain't the same" any more. Say La Vee !!!!!! Too bad, too bad.



#1

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    NYNM
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    RE: NYCity Roadfood Tour--1947 AD 2005/12/19 23:25:11 (permalink)
    Thanks! Yes and I wonder what the "trolley" fare was then....(on the night of our continued threatened transit) strike in NYC

    (now who remembers Mike Quill from the 1960's strikes! From an Irish brogue on the radio to a French Carribean accent of today's TWU head, Roger Toussaint..)
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    Tedbear
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    RE: NYCity Roadfood Tour--1947 AD 2005/12/20 07:19:33 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by NYNM

    Thanks! Yes and I wonder what the "trolley" fare was then....(on the night of our continued threatened transit) strike in NYC

    (now who remembers Mike Quill from the 1960's strikes! From an Irish brogue on the radio to a French Carribean accent of today's TWU head, Roger Toussaint..)



    I have vivid recollections of Mike Quill. I can remember him being interviewed on TV by Mike Wallace, sometime in the '50s.

    Mike Wallace, who was an investigative reporter even back then, had some documents that confirmed that Quill was lying about something or other. Wallace read the inconsistencies off of his papers, and asked Quill for a comment on each point that he enumerated.

    Quill's response to each item was the same non-substantive answer. (I will attempt to do a phonetic impression of his responses) "Yeer quotin' off tielit paper Mike, yeer quotin' off tielit paper!" He never actually gave a response of any substance, and his failure to try to refute Wallace's statements certainly made it appear that he was lying or concealing something.

    Quill was indeed a colorful character, and I always suspected that his brogue was a bit heavier than necessary when he was interviewed. I think that he wanted to appear to be an unsophisticated "Greenhorn", when in reality, he was a canny political animal.
    #3
    the ancient mariner
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    RE: NYCity Roadfood Tour--1947 AD 2005/12/20 09:52:53 (permalink)
    A few things---one the trolley was a nickle because I remember that if you put a penny on the track and the trolley wheels ran over it the size increased so that it fit the nickel slot perfectly. (Not that I ever did such a dastardly deed myself, but I heard it on the grape vine.) A few other tricks used by kids of that era (we had no money)was to hang on the back of the trolley and ride for blocks, or if you were on skates to hold on to the side and ride along in lovely style unless you hit a pothole or something else in the road.

    As for Quill---a tough little s.o.b who went to jail at the time of the strike. There were scenes shot from his cell. Lindsay was mayor at the time, if I am not mistaken, and the strike really was tough for him.

    Other important NYCity events were the garbage strike and the blackout. A story about the garbage strike that appeared in the News or the Post, but not the Times ----- it was not fit to print---- A man who lived in an east side brownstone would put his garbage in a box, wrap it nicely and put a ribbon on it and then leave it on the seat of his car with the window open. It always disappeared.

    The big blackout in 63 or 64 was amazing. People stuck in elevators for hours and hours. Walking on subway tracks to the next station to get off stopped trains. I was in the city and drove over the Triboro Bridge into Queens. Even though the toll booth was not lit people still threw quarters in the basket. Not me, I kept my quarter and invested it and am living high off the hog now because of the dividends.
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    Tedbear
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    RE: NYCity Roadfood Tour--1947 AD 2005/12/20 10:04:16 (permalink)

    Quote: "As for Quill---a tough little s.o.b who went to jail at the time of the strike. There were scenes shot from his cell. Lindsay was mayor at the time, if I am not mistaken, and the strike really was tough for him."
    Your recollections are very accurate, if my memory serves me correctly. Regarding Lindsay--he and his negotiating team were not very good. They were so afraid of the effects of a long-term strike that they did not do enough counter-offering in the negotiations. Many years later, Quill admitted that the contract that his men received was far more lucrative than they had ever expected, and in fact, they would have settled for much lower wages and benefits than were offered.

    And, this situation set the stage for the bankruptcy of the city that followed many years later, as all of the municipal labor contracts then piggy-backed on the rates that were established in the Transit Contract. The poor negotiating skills of Lindsay and his team eventually led to hundreds of millions of $$ in higher labor costs for transit, police, fire, teachers, and other municipal workers.

    John Lindsay was a gentleman, but I think that history has shown him to have been less effective than he was usually perceived as having been at the time.
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    the ancient mariner
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    RE: NYCity Roadfood Tour--1947 AD 2005/12/20 10:44:20 (permalink)
    Tedbear-------and what will come of this strike, will Blomberg be as tough as Giuliani would have been or will he be another Lindsay??????? I met Lindsay when he was campaigning, shook hands---tall, good looking guy but not a good mayor. Wasn't Abe Beame part of his team. Maybe Bloomy will stand at the Brooklyn Bridge and greet the folks walking to work in their running shoes and ask "How am I doin'?"

    I thought the most innovative and interesting guy running for mayor in those days was Bill Buckley who later became so well known. If you could find his platform you would think it very different. A little off the wall but------
    -------------oh well !!!!!!!!!!

    #6
    NYNM
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    RE: NYCity Roadfood Tour--1947 AD 2005/12/20 16:37:55 (permalink)
    First day of Transit Strike '05:

    Like, really light traffic in Manhattan south of 96 St.
    Now, that's the way it should be!


    Tielit paper! Love it!
    #7
    Tedbear
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    RE: NYCity Roadfood Tour--1947 AD 2005/12/20 17:53:56 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by the ancient mariner

    Tedbear-------and what will come of this strike, will Blomberg be as tough as Giuliani would have been or will he be another Lindsay??????? I met Lindsay when he was campaigning, shook hands---tall, good looking guy but not a good mayor. Wasn't Abe Beame part of his team. Maybe Bloomy will stand at the Brooklyn Bridge and greet the folks walking to work in their running shoes and ask "How am I doin'?"

    I thought the most innovative and interesting guy running for mayor in those days was Bill Buckley who later became so well known. If you could find his platform you would think it very different. A little off the wall but------
    -------------oh well !!!!!!!!!!




    Yes, I believe it is clear that Mike Bloomberg will be tough. He has the ability to get things done without alienating large sectors of the public (as the mean-spirited Giuliani did). He has kept the crime rate low and has retained the quality of life improvements of his predecessor without making the less-affluent feel like they are hated by him. Rudy accomplished many good things, but racial harmony in NYC came crashing down to a new low under his regime.

    As to greeting the transit-less commuters at the base of The Brooklyn Bridge, Mike Bloomberg far exceeded that expectation. He spent the night at the Office of Emergency Management, in Brooklyn. In the A.M., he donned his walking shoes and hoofed it across the bridge, along with hordes of other New Yorkers. Already, the fines that have been imposed by the NY Supreme Court (which, in classic NY fashion, is NOT the highest court in the state!) will wipe out full resources of the Transit Workers Union by next week, if the workers have not returned to the job by then. Also, the local union's president, Mr. Touissant, was warned by the national officials of his union that he should not strike. It should be interesting to see how this plays out.

    As to Abe Beame, I am a little hazy on this, but I think that he may have been the city's Comptroller during the Lindsay years. Beame was incompetent in the Comptroller position (no matter whether he served under Lindsay or not), and his mayoralty was not a good one either. While Beame was Comptroller, millions of $$ in unregistered Bearer Bonds were stored in an unlocked hall closet in City Hall. Needless to say, many of those bonds disappeared, only to be later sold by whoever stole them, or by some subsequent owner of the stolen bonds. Unfortunately, with those instruments, whoever possesses them is the owner.

    As to Lindsay, at the first hint of racial unrest in Harlem during his administration, barrels of cash (this is not a mis-print!) were trucked up to that neighborhood, and city officials literally handed out the cash to kids on the street in order to try to prevent them from rioting. That strange and simplistic tactic did not work.

    All-in-all, I think that Mike Bloomberg is about the best that NYC can expect in a Mayor, now that we no longer have people of the quality of Fiorello LaGuardia. The NY Times, in a recent editorial, stated that Bloomberg may go down in history as the best mayor that the city ever had. And, trust me, Lindsay won't be on that list, nor will Beame, and if any racial or sexual minorities are asked for their opinions, neither will Rudy Giuliani.
    #8
    the ancient mariner
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    RE: NYCity Roadfood Tour--1947 AD 2005/12/20 19:39:30 (permalink)
    Well gentlemen,and any ladies who happen to be present,I started this topic by talking about a walking roadfood tour of NYCity circa 1947------it has changed a great deal in those 58 years but I still love it and recently walked from Columbia University to dinner at a little Italian Restaurant off Times Square. Broadway was jumping all the way from 120th St to 45th. I was accompanied by the beautiful MaryAnn and after dinner we went to the theater, we had a wonderful day and evening......Sooooooo, mayors come and mayors go, strikes are called and then settled, disasters happen but people are very resilient and New York City goes on and on. And as someone once said "this too shall pass".

    But I would love to go back to the city I grew up in during the 40s and 50s---- it sure isn't the same. For instance, I didn't see one Nedicks all the way down B'way. Gone but not forgotten. RIP.
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    Michael Hoffman
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    RE: NYCity Roadfood Tour--1947 AD 2005/12/20 20:18:23 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by the ancient mariner

    The big blackout in 63 or 64 was amazing. People stuck in elevators for hours and hours. Walking on subway tracks to the next station to get off stopped trains. I was in the city and drove over the Triboro Bridge into Queens. Even though the toll booth was not lit people still threw quarters in the basket. Not me, I kept my quarter and invested it and am living high off the hog now because of the dividends.

    That was 1965. Nov. 9, 1965, to be specific. I was news director at a radio station in Charleston, West Virginia at the time and I called a friend of mine at WNEW for an actuality (that's an audio report) to use on my newscasts and the SOB refused unless he got paid. I agreed and had the station send him a check for ten cents. I spoke with him a couple of years ago and he told me he still had that check framed and on his den wall.
    #10
    the ancient mariner
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    RE: NYCity Roadfood Tour--1947 AD 2005/12/20 20:35:29 (permalink)
    Michael------1965 was it, ok I take your word for it. WNEW was my favorite station back then.

    William B Williams, Jim Low, Klavin and Finch, etc, etc. I actually did work for one of the news guys there. Don't remember his name but when he spoke to me for the first time I knew I knew the voice. Could not place it though. When we got down to business and he told me his name I knew that what I thought I knew, I knew.

    It was on WNEW that I first heard Jonathan Schwartz who I still listen to. He is the best.
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    Tedbear
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    RE: NYCity Roadfood Tour--1947 AD 2005/12/21 08:38:02 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by the ancient mariner

    Michael------1965 was it, ok I take your word for it. WNEW was my favorite station back then.

    William B Williams, Jim Low, Klavin and Finch, etc, etc. I actually did work for one of the news guys there. Don't remember his name but when he spoke to me for the first time I knew I knew the voice. Could not place it though. When we got down to business and he told me his name I knew that what I thought I knew, I knew.

    It was on WNEW that I first heard Jonathan Schwartz who I still listen to. He is the best.




    WNEW, in both its AM and FM incarnations was indeed great. However, I think that you are confusing the AM & FM lineups. Jonathan Schwartz (son of the famed songwriter, Arthur Schwartz) was one of the FM jocks, along with Pete Fornatale, Allison Steele (The Nightbird!), Scott Muni, and a few others who slip my mind at the moment.

    William B. Williams, Jim Lowe, Julius LaRosa, and Klavin & Finch were some of the on-air personalities from the AM station in the 1960s-70s. My father managed a shoe store around the corner from the AM studios, and most of the disk jockeys used to come in to have their shoes shined by the store's porter, who ran a little business on the side. Klavin & Finch were on in the early morning, so they never made it into the store before it opened in the morning, but most of the other WNEW-AM personalities were frequent visitors. My father said that "Willie B." was rather full of himself, but most of the others were very nice down-to-earth guys. His favorite was Pete _________ (my mind is drawing a blank on his name). Pete's real first name was Pierre, but he referred to himself as Pete while broadcasting. I really wish that I could remember this man's name, as my father said that he was a genuinely nice person who did not look down on the African-American Porter/Shoe Shine Man--unlike Willie B.

    Pete (or Pierre) later committed suicide, and I can recall my father being greatly saddened by his passing.

    I still listen to Jonathan Schwartz, since he has a really wonderful weekend program on WNYC radio (and on one of those subscription satellite radio networks). Unfortunately, WNEW-FM's format no longer interests me. However, I do listen daily to the successor to WNEW-AM, namely Bloomberg Radio. This business/investment oriented station is a great source of information on the financial markets and their trends.
    #12
    the ancient mariner
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    RE: NYCity Roadfood Tour--1947 AD 2005/12/21 11:24:19 (permalink)
    Ted Bear and Michael H.---
    when you mention WNEW you stir up some wonderful memories. I go way, way back into my past and recall------

    My first year in HS,1940, I was introduced to WNEW and "The Make Believe Ballroom" hosted by Martin Block. From then on I only needed one station on the dial-----1130 AM. At night there was Art Ford --- a great voice and very knowledgeable about swing and jazz. I think the show was called "The Milkman's Matinee".

    How about Ted Brown and his wife Rhoda !!!! He was one funny guy.

    The early morning was Gene Rayburn with Dee Finch -- Gene went on to host a TV game show called tic-tac-toe or something that made Paul Lynne famous. When he left Klavin joined Finch.

    Jonathan---my all time favorite, was on AM every weekend in the beginning and then hosted a show in the evening about 8PM. Love his stories and the fact he is a Red Sox Fan.

    Through the years a few other favorites were Al "Jazzbo" Collins, Mark Simone and Rich Conaty. Conaty came over from WFUV-Fm and went back there where he hosts a weekend show with the music of the 20's--Dixieland and Jazz.

    Unfortunately I heard the same thing about William B.---actually you could hear it in his voice your father was right. Well most of us are not perfect. Only a select few.









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    rmcielwain
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    RE: NYCity Roadfood Tour--1947 AD 2005/12/21 12:39:50 (permalink)

    Ancient Mariner, Gene Rayburn went on to host "Match Game" in the '60s & '70s.
    Paul Lynde ("Uncle Arthur" on "Bewitched") was famous as the center square on
    "Hollywood Squares".
    Even though the '70s version of "Match Game" taped in Los Angeles, Gene always
    commuted back to his home on the East Coast between tapings.
    #14
    the ancient mariner
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    RE: NYCity Roadfood Tour--1947 AD 2005/12/21 14:19:36 (permalink)
    Thank you rmcielwain

    I knew the game was not tic-tac-toe just couldn't remember the game which was as derived from t_t_t. The Hollywood Squares---ah yes-----and Paul Lynne was never a square no matter where he sat and what the name of the game was. He was great on that show and in "Bye Bye Birdy" where he sang
    "Kids, why can't they be like we were,
    Perfect in every way
    What's the matter with kids today?"
    I agree whole heartedly, especially the perfect in every way bit.

    On that other show he had Charles Nelson Riley to contend with. Saw ol' Charles in "Hello Dolly" with Carol Channing on Broadway long before he went Hollywood on us. Actually it was off Broadway, there are not many legitimate theaters on B'way. Nor illegitimate ones either.
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    Tedbear
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    RE: NYCity Roadfood Tour--1947 AD 2005/12/21 18:07:32 (permalink)

    Quote: "He was great on that show and in "Bye Bye Birdy"
    That brings back a very nice memory for me. The first Broadway show that I ever saw (at the age of ~12) was Bye Bye Birdie. In addition to Paul Lynde, it starred Chita Rivera and Dick Van Dyke. While none of them were unknowns at the time, this was the first really big show for them, as I recall. The music, the lyrics, the choreography, and the staging were all very memorable, and the performers were all great. It made a strong impression on me, and made me want to continue my visits to the legitimate theater.

    After the show, all of the kids in my group mobbed the stage door, in order to get an autograph or two. The only performer who came out while we were waiting was a dancer named Lada Edmund. She scrawled something on my Playbill, and somewhere I still have that in my collection of theater memorabilia. Of course, the value of it is questionable. What ever became of Lada Edmund, I wonder?
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    the ancient mariner
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    RE: NYCity Roadfood Tour--1947 AD 2005/12/22 14:52:25 (permalink)
    Ted Bear the strike is over. Mike Blomberg did a first rate job, the court imposed fine kicked the union where it hurt the most, and soon things will be back to normal. Just another of the 8 million stories on the streets of New York. Wasn't that the sign off for "Naked City" an early TV show ?
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    tacchino
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    RE: NYCity Roadfood Tour--1947 AD 2005/12/22 15:28:05 (permalink)
    I hope the trains get moving soon; the news tells us that it still might take them at least twelve hours to make sure that the stations are clean, the machinery is working properly, etc.

    What a couple of days, and to boot, just this morning I found that I couldn't use my cell phone network (Cingular)...a tower may be out in the New York area, affecting Cingular users in the area. Just what we need here as people get ready for the holidays!
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    Tedbear
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    RE: NYCity Roadfood Tour--1947 AD 2005/12/22 17:29:25 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by the ancient mariner

    Ted Bear the strike is over. Mike Blomberg did a first rate job, the court imposed fine kicked the union where it hurt the most, and soon things will be back to normal. Just another of the 8 million stories on the streets of New York. Wasn't that the sign off for "Naked City" an early TV show ?


    Yup! You have a good memory. If my memory serves me correctly, the sign-off was, "There are 8 million stories in The Naked City. This has been one of them". Now that was a first-rate show!
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    the ancient mariner
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    RE: NYCity Roadfood Tour--1947 AD 2005/12/22 17:59:22 (permalink)
    You hit it right on Ted Bear. There are 8 million stories in the Naked City. It was a great show. Based on a movie that starred Barry Fitzgerald as the head copper. Can you imagine that little lepracon (sp) as a NYC policeman chief.

    As a kid working in the city after classes I found something every day that I didn't know existed the day before. It was a great education. Restaurants, music, celebrities, broadway shows, great movie theaters, museums, opera, people who were rich and people who had nothing, Park Avenue and the Bowery, drunks and preachers, thieves and holy people------seen 'em all----been there done that----it was wonderful.
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    MacTAC
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    RE: NYCity Roadfood Tour--1947 AD 2005/12/25 14:26:26 (permalink)
    quote:
    Originally posted by TedbearWNEW, in both its AM and FM incarnations was indeed great. However, I think that you are confusing the AM & FM lineups. Jonathan Schwartz (son of the famed songwriter, Arthur Schwartz) was one of the FM jocks, along with Pete Fornatale, Allison Steele (The Nightbird!), Scott Muni, and a few others who slip my mind at the moment.
    Loved listening to The Nightbird. Wasn't Roscoe in the line up also? I remember Gil Scott Heron and the reading of Pete Hamill and others. And for the Christmas season, Simon & Garfunkels' Silent Night/Seven O'Clock news. Wish that it wasn't still heartbreaking.
    #21
    seafarer john
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    RE: NYCity Roadfood Tour--1947 AD 2005/12/25 15:24:20 (permalink)
    I remember a roast pork sandwich at the Turf Club (?) on B'way about 47th s that was great.

    cheers, John
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    BrooklynBill
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    RE: NYCity Roadfood Tour--1947 AD 2005/12/28 08:28:13 (permalink)
    quote:

    William B. Williams, Jim Lowe, Julius LaRosa, and Klavin & Finch were some of the on-air personalities from the AM station in the 1960s-70s. My father managed a shoe store around the corner from the AM studios, and most of the disk jockeys used to come in to have their shoes shined by the store's porter, who ran a little business on the side. Klavin & Finch were on in the early morning, so they never made it into the store before it opened in the morning, but most of the other WNEW-AM personalities were frequent visitors. My father said that "Willie B." was rather full of himself, but most of the others were very nice down-to-earth guys. His favorite was Pete _________ (my mind is drawing a blank on his name). Pete's real first name was Pierre, but he referred to himself as Pete while broadcasting. I really wish that I could remember this man's name, as my father said that he was a genuinely nice person who did not look down on the African-American Porter/Shoe Shine Man--unlike Willie B.

    Pete (or Pierre) later committed suicide, and I can recall my father being greatly saddened by his passing.

    Thought on above quote--
    Tedbear --

    Could it have been Peter Tripp? He was out of NY radio after payola scandal.

    Bill

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    Tedbear
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    RE: NYCity Roadfood Tour--1947 AD 2005/12/29 07:03:20 (permalink)

    No, it definitely wasn't Peter Tripp. If I hear or see the name, I know that I will recognize it, but it wasn't Tripp. Thanks for a good try, but that isn't it.
    #24
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