Helpful ReplyHot!Shuttle Bus Experience?

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TravelingPan
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2017/09/26 20:13:39 (permalink)

Shuttle Bus Experience?

I finally found a bus I like at a price that's right. It's an old 1993 22 passenger Champion Airport Transit from the Detroit airport and has been in service as a tailgate bus for NFL games. It's pretty solid but needs engine work, no problems there. I'm curious what people do about the windows, should I just paint them and wall over them on the inside or can I leave them as they are inside with no wall board? All the wall panels and glass are smooth wipe-able surfaces. I'm debating a platform off the back for propane tanks and the genset, can I put my water tanks there too?
Any input I can get would be great, I'm unsure about the bus factor but I think it's doable.
Oh yeah, if I'm just using a steam table and a conveyor pizza type oven will I still need a hood or can I just vent exhaust from the oven right out the top?
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Blakkmoon
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Re: Shuttle Bus Experience? 2017/09/26 23:58:55 (permalink)
This is one of our local trucks.

 
Looks like they just painted over the windows.
So it CAN be done. Or it could be wrapped.
 
If you want to see other views, here is the link.
 
I have seen the inside, and it is fully walled in.
 
Hood, exhaust, fire suppression.
All up to your AHJ.
- Authority Having Jurisdiction. ( the guys the enforce the rules - who ever that may be in your area )
 
Water tanks, I would not put them anywhere exposed to sunlight unless they are either made out of stainless or fully enclosed.
Plastic is all enviro friendly.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for that.
But it means that the plastics they make nowadays is total crap.
And when exposed to the elements, breaks down pretty quick.
 
Ex.  My recycle bins after a couple of years, are all brittle and broken.
Most plastics seem to break down in sunlight now.
Not breakdown as in compost.
Just breakdown and fail.
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TravelingPan
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Re: Shuttle Bus Experience? 2017/09/27 06:18:26 (permalink)
Blakkmoon
This is one of our local trucks.

 
Looks like they just painted over the windows.
So it CAN be done. Or it could be wrapped.
 
If you want to see other views,
 
I have seen the inside, and it is fully walled in.
 
Hood, exhaust, fire suppression.
All up to your AHJ.
- Authority Having Jurisdiction. ( the guys the enforce the rules - who ever that may be in your area )
 
Water tanks, I would not put them anywhere exposed to sunlight unless they are either made out of stainless or fully enclosed.
Plastic is all enviro friendly.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for that.
But it means that the plastics they make nowadays is total crap.
And when exposed to the elements, breaks down pretty quick.
 
Ex.  My recycle bins after a couple of years, are all brittle and broken.
Most plastics seem to break down in sunlight now.
Not breakdown as in compost.
Just breakdown and fail.


Cool. I'm afraid I might lose too much cubic footage by walling it in.
I'm thinking about just using a couple of water heaters for tanks. The tanks inside tend to be plastic these days but they're also insulated and have the sheet metal exterior. thoughts?
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RodBangkok
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Re: Shuttle Bus Experience? 2017/09/27 07:55:22 (permalink)
I would probably have some fun with the windows and backlight them with led panels and paint the windows such that it looks like the bus has people in it.  May be a lot of work but I think it would look great if pulled off properly.
 
anyway have fun with it and get creative!
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Blakkmoon
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Re: Shuttle Bus Experience? 2017/09/27 09:12:56 (permalink)
Your AHJ may have something to say about water tanks. Not sure.
Even if one inspector lets it slide one time, others can veto it later on.
At the very least, waste tanks have to be bigger than fresh tanks.
 
- residential water tanks - tend to rust and leak
- they are NOT sealed ( from the outer shell to the inner tank )
- have you ever tried to drain one? Not easier or quick.
- they are designed to break down after 4 or 5 years
 
- if you are using used ones - they probably have very little usable life left in them
- plastic tanks are under $100 online
 
I have no idea how much square footage you might loose by walling stuff in.
I know I had the same concerns with mine.
I was trying to leave as much raw metal / space as possible.
In the end, on the cooking side, it's 4.5 inches from the outside of the wall to the inside skin.
I know because I needed 5.5 inch bolts to secure the hood.
Outer wall, factory studs, roxul in between, 3/8 plywood, 1/4 inch cement board, then stainless with a 1.2 air gap.
Probably lost 1/2 inch just in adhesive thickness alone.
 
In the end, whatever, just smile and nod.
 
The more the build progressed, the more I thought about things like how easy will this be to clean down the road.
 
On one of my latest posts on my build thread, I mentioned that although my ceiling is already sheeted in aluminum, it ended up being to hard to clean, so I decided to skin over it with the powder coated aluminum sheets I had.
Yes, more work. Yes more cost.
But it looks great and cleans with one swipe now.
 
I have been forced to change TONS of stuff that I first planned out.
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TravelingPan
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Re: Shuttle Bus Experience? 2017/10/05 20:22:56 (permalink)
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So I went and checked it out, hands on, today. There's PLENTY of room for a kitchen inside. It is a 427 tall deck and only needs a timing chain, yay easy job.
It's a bit rough and will need some sheet metal here and there, the floor is a potential problem area. It's a little tall to serve out of unless I step the deck down inside approaching a service window. I'm concerned about the GVW, the tag says 21,600lbs... that probably doesn't leave me much room to wiggle, I'm guessing this thing is already pretty hefty. I suppose I could add leaf springs but omg what a pita.
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Uncle Groucho
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Re: Shuttle Bus Experience? 2017/10/05 21:08:34 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby TravelingPan 2017/10/06 13:21:46
I have seen a food truck similar to yours with a high serving window , they used a lightweight raised platform in front of the window , it was roughly 4' x 3' and they strapped it on the back for transport. I think it was plastic or aluminum and was painted neon green for visibility. Good Luck!
Karl
 
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Blakkmoon
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Re: Shuttle Bus Experience? 2017/10/05 23:58:04 (permalink)
This looks like a similar type of bus.
They left the windows.
 
Even figured out a way to serve out of one.
 

 

 

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TravelingPan
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Re: Shuttle Bus Experience? 2017/10/06 01:54:12 (permalink)
I'm still pretty uncomfortable with the overall height of this. The bottom of the white stripe is floor height. Maybe I'm just getting cold feet idk? I just don't want to start with the wrong thing here. I've only got one shot at this and no budget. Ugh. Without any idea what it weighs I have no idea if I'll even be able to equip it and keep it legal... Maybe I'm just accustomed to the heavier weights of my old KW but 21k pounds just doesn't seem like much. An empty 53' trailer weighs that much...
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TravelingPan
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Re: Shuttle Bus Experience? 2017/10/06 01:56:02 (permalink)
Oh, and if I have to put one of those stupid bell vents on top this thing will never make it. It's already pushing 13' height!
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Blakkmoon
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Re: Shuttle Bus Experience? 2017/10/06 11:13:34 (permalink)
I agree that it looks pretty tall.
I wonder if you can make the door where the wheelchair lift goes somehow work for a lower serving window??
And if so, is it worth the effort?
 
Venting etc.  .....  check with your AHJ and see what they say.
Maybe a side vent.
 
GVW... isn't that based on full load capacity? Not empty weight.
From the pics it looks like about 20 - 25 people capacity.
20 people x 250 lbs = 5000 lbs.
Probably another 1000 - 2000 for all the seats and stuff you will be ripping out.
 
You only mentioned a pizza conveyor. What ....500 lbs?
A couple fridges, a freezer, sinks, and cupboards and shelves.  1000 lbs?
Genny... 200 lbs?  propane ... 200lbs?   do you need propane? or just go all electric?
All supplies ....1000 lbs?
From what I can see so far..... still within specs.
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TravelingPan
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Re: Shuttle Bus Experience? 2017/10/06 13:12:40 (permalink)
Blakkmoon
I agree that it looks pretty tall.
I wonder if you can make the door where the wheelchair lift goes somehow work for a lower serving window??
And if so, is it worth the effort?
 
Venting etc.  .....  check with your AHJ and see what they say.
Maybe a side vent.
 
GVW... isn't that based on full load capacity? Not empty weight.
From the pics it looks like about 20 - 25 people capacity.
20 people x 250 lbs = 5000 lbs.
Probably another 1000 - 2000 for all the seats and stuff you will be ripping out.
 
You only mentioned a pizza conveyor. What ....500 lbs?
A couple fridges, a freezer, sinks, and cupboards and shelves.  1000 lbs?
Genny... 200 lbs?  propane ... 200lbs?   do you need propane? or just go all electric?
All supplies ....1000 lbs?
From what I can see so far..... still within specs.


The lift door is my best option for a service window I agree. I might be able to build steps inside going down to the window much like the steps at the entrance to the bus.
I was originally leaning towards propane but after reading some of your posts and some research at the state level I think electric might be the lower cost option with less maint... So a far larger genny, probably go with a diesel. I had a stand alone APU in my Kenworth that ran two 20amp circuits and burned about a gallon of juice every 4-5 hours. I think even that might be a bit small? Ideally I want a convection conveyor, a grill, and a steam table or several electric roasting pans, freezer, cooler/cold sandwich table, water heater, MAYBE a microwave for occasional use, etc... that's probably too much electricity...
These are things that will work themselves out eventually but I feel like I need to be considerate of them while choosing a rig. I think I need to just jump on this truck, get it running, gut it out and repair/replace everything that must be fixed, and pour tons more research into it in the process. I can get it on a scale once it's running. You're probably right about the weight, there's got to be 800-1000 pounds of seats in there...
UGH.
I guess worst case scenario I get someone started on a killer RV, sell it for what I'll have in it and start looking again.
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TravelingPan
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Re: Shuttle Bus Experience? 2017/10/06 13:18:16 (permalink)
Oh yeah, I'm leaning towards a menu of primarily biscuits and various meat gravies with some sandwiches and daily specials... Like country sausage gravy, beef gravy (with plenty of meat in it), turkey gravy (also lots of meat), and great big flaky biscuits to dip in them. Everybody loves some Bs & G... lol
 
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Blakkmoon
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Re: Shuttle Bus Experience? 2017/10/06 13:55:13 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby TravelingPan 2017/10/06 14:50:16
From what I have figured out.
I can get away with a 10 kw genny.
But until I really get going, I won't know for sure.
 
If it works, then later on I can get a couple of Honda's.
 
But if it turns out that I need more power, then I will have to look at something like an Onan.
But they are over 1000 lbs. And will cost me about $20 a pound.
 
I made sure that I have a 100 amp panel with tons of breakers and room to spare.
 
Find out what that conveyor oven needs for juice before you do much else.
 
Check with Inferno.
His truck uses the kind of setup you are after.
 
He has the coveyor oven and does toasted sandwiches.
He runs a pair of Honda's.
 
 
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TravelingPan
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Re: Shuttle Bus Experience? 2017/10/12 12:16:10 (permalink)
Well I agreed to purchase and my offer was accepted. Having it pulled out to the house on Saturday.
Just got home from showing it to the wife half and taking some measurements.
7'6" inside width
18'6" cargo/kitchen area (might be able to fit a dishwasher in her) lol
27'4" overall outside length
Just over 10' outside height
Plenty of headroom inside
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TravelingPan
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Re: Shuttle Bus Experience? 2017/10/12 12:18:22 (permalink)
OOOH, I almost forgot...
Most of the windows are emergency escapes and are hinged at the top with a lever latch on each side!!!
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Blakkmoon
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Re: Shuttle Bus Experience? 2017/10/12 15:19:18 (permalink)
TravelingPan
OOOH, I almost forgot...
Most of the windows are emergency escapes and are hinged at the top with a lever latch on each side!!!


NICE!!
THAT will work to your advantage!!
 
 
post edited by Blakkmoon - 2017/10/12 20:24:11
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TravelingPan
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Re: Shuttle Bus Experience? 2017/10/12 16:19:25 (permalink)
Ummm, yeah. That was kind of a joke. Do we use purple text for sarcasm or something, I'm kind of new here ;)
Blakkmoon
TravelingPan
OOOH, I almost forgot...
Most of the windows are emergency escapes and are hinged at the top with a lever latch on each side!!!


NICE!!
THAT will work to your advantage!!
 
Be careful with the dishwasher.
Not sure ....but
I would think as soon as it goes in it may be treated as they do in a commercial kitchen.
HERE, if you have a dishwasher, it MUST be a commercial unit.  $$$$$$$
It MUST be up to NSF specs / temps.
It MUST use specific commercial cleansers / sanitizers.
When the HD walks in as wants to test it ( probably in the middle of a service at a busy event )
It MUST perform up to specs, or they shut you down.
PLUS you would still need your 4 sinks.
PLUS you entire water system must be able to handle it all. Sizes / capacities.
PLUS your electrical must be able to handle the load .....
- probably all while filling the sink.
 
Thanks, but no.
You are not washing plates and glasses and cutlery for 200 people a day.
You will need that space for the DISPOSABLE containers and cutlery and napkins and straws that will get tossed.




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TravelingPan
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Re: Shuttle Bus Experience? 2017/10/14 23:58:22 (permalink)
Well I bought it and brought it home today. A few strange looks from neighbors, a polite wave back....
I've been busy with another project most of the day but finally made it out for a closer look around. I'm very pleased with everything I'm seeing so far. I think I did well with this selection.
It turns out this is sitting on a Chevy PS6500 chassis. From what I can tell the typical Snap-On truck and a lot of "Brinks" type armored cars use them.
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TravelingPan
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Re: Shuttle Bus Experience? 2017/10/15 15:59:29 (permalink)

Okay I inspected the top side today, it was raining and there were a few drips inside. It appears that the whole body from the bottom of the white stripe up is all fiberglass with a few calked seems. Nice! I'm thinking that once I get the inside stripped maybe a layer of bed liner or undercoating from the inside should seal the whole thing right up.
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Blakkmoon
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Re: Shuttle Bus Experience? 2017/10/15 17:19:28 (permalink)

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Uncle Groucho
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Re: Shuttle Bus Experience? 2017/10/15 17:27:12 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby TravelingPan 2017/10/15 20:56:38
Damn thats big.
 
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TravelingPan
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Re: Shuttle Bus Experience? 2017/10/15 21:30:40 (permalink)
So I spent the rest of the day inside cleaning and inspecting (it was raining)....
Good news and bad I guess.
I pulled a couple steel panels off from inside to see just what was between them and the fiberglass hull.
First the bad.... spray foam.
...and the good... really nice heavy square steel tube frame and very well constructed...
...and more bad... but from what I can tell the only thing linking the hull and the frame is the spray foam.... which has been wet.
Unless someone knows of a solvent that easily and completely removes that spray foam from the fiberglass without damage, I'll need to seal it from the outside. Still thinking bedliner though.
Any ideas or similar experiences?
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Blakkmoon
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Re: Shuttle Bus Experience? 2017/10/16 00:04:49 (permalink)
I would try to find out who makes that bus and make a few phone calls, or do some googling.
Find out from other sources how the thing is put together.
I find it hard to understand that on a vehicle that carried that much weight AND people that the only thing holding the framework to the shell is foam.
Especially in a country that is full of people that will sue you because your flowers casue them to sneeze.
 
Sure, if it were a converted rv or something, but not a purpose built unit.
 
Also, what the heck is wrong with the spray foam?
That means you are already insulated.
Probably everywhere.
Why pull it out?
Even if its wet, it won't hurt it.
 
I would be more inclined to look for where the water is getting in.
Cracks, or broken seals in the shell, window seals.....
 
Is there water INSIDE the truck?
 
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TravelingPan
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Re: Shuttle Bus Experience? 2017/10/16 12:14:01 (permalink)
Well further inspection so far reveals only about 550sqft approx of spray foam over a spiderweb of structural support. There may be an odd bracket here or there but I haven't found any yet. Maybe I will on tear out. Either way I can drill and rivet anywhere I may need to tack it down. Also I'll scrape all the old calk out of the exterior factory seams and replace it before I put bedliner over it but I think bedliner alone would seal nicely.
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Blakkmoon
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Re: Shuttle Bus Experience? 2017/10/16 12:22:34 (permalink)
Where are you putting the bedliner?
 
The storebought roll on kind tends to get kind of brittle after a while.
The spray on, while much more expensive, is pretty thick and seems more flexible.
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TravelingPan
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Re: Shuttle Bus Experience? 2017/10/16 12:24:47 (permalink)
WoooooHOOOOO!
It's not too tall! I just pushed one of the emergency windows open and had my 5'2" daughter test it out for me... excellent!


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Blakkmoon
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Re: Shuttle Bus Experience? 2017/10/16 15:11:30 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby TravelingPan 2017/10/16 15:36:40
Had a feeling that might work out.
If you happen to be curbside... she would be 6 inches taller.
 
Those hand rails on the ceiling might be good for hangin utensils and pots and pans.
And the occasional boogie..
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TravelingPan
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Re: Shuttle Bus Experience? 2017/10/17 00:24:17 (permalink)
Blakkmoon
Had a feeling that might work out.
If you happen to be curbside... she would be 6 inches taller.
 
Those hand rails on the ceiling might be good for hangin utensils and pots and pans.
And the occasional boogie..


Yeah I've already picked out a good spot for the stripper pole too ;)
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hpx
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Re: Shuttle Bus Experience? 2017/10/17 03:15:53 (permalink)
HOLY COW! Thats a big truck! Best of luck to you
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