Helpful ReplyGOLF: History, Current Events, or "Smack"

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MetroplexJim
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2017/06/18 11:46:21 (permalink)

GOLF: History, Current Events, or "Smack"

While a definite improvement over the blasphemy that was the tricked-up dog track Chambers Bay, Erin Hills is more suited to host, say, The John Deere Classic than the United States Open Golf Tournament.
 
Just freaking excuse me, but the U.S. Open is supposed to 'identify' the best golfer - not 'spread it' for a bunch of unknown 'paycheck Charlies' to tie Johnny miller's single round record and one 145# colorless geek clown to break it !!!  Fearing disdain and laughter, No commentator will ever refer to Justin Thomas' 9 under round in the same breath as Miller's stunning round at Oakmont.  I hope J.B Holmes bitch-slaps a 61 on that faux-links track today and waddles off with the Open!
 
Last summer I went to the final round of The Open at Royal Troon and witnessed an epic battle between Stenson and Mickelson.  So let me tell American designers a little 'secret' - if you took Royal Troon away from the harsh, bitter winds sweeping off the Firth of Clyde and put it in calm breezes of Wisconsin interior pasture land it would be a dog track.  By the same token, put Erin Hills hard by the Firth of Forth and, with more maturity it would be hailed as a cathedral of golf
 
(In other words, put Brad Pitt in a pretty dress if you want, I still ain't taking him to Prom !!!).
 
And, speaking of golf cathedrals I'm glad the USGA seems to have scratched their itch for novelty.  Here are the venues through 2025:
 
2018 -- Shinnecock Hills
2019 -- Pebble Beach
2020 -- Winged Foot
2021 -- Torrey Pines
2022 -- The Country Club
2023 --  Los Angeles Country Club 
2024 --  Pinehurst #2
2025 --  Oakmont
 
Even though I'd prefer Olympic to LACC, I have no real complaint. 
Clearly, the USGA has returned to sanity.
 
-----------------------------
 
A 61 is out there today.  Go, J.B. Holmes !!!
 
 
 
 
post edited by MetroplexJim - 2018/09/23 16:09:26
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JRPfeff
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Re: The 2017 U.S. Open @ Erin Hills 2017/06/18 13:03:09 (permalink)
Jim,
 
In case you hadn't noticed, Snead, Hogan, Palmer, Nicklaus, and Woods are no longer on the tour. And the active player with the most majors decided to take the week off. With the exception of Mickelson, McIlroy, Els, and Singh; every other golfer on the tour is at best a one- or a two-hit wonder ("Just a fart in the wind"). As much as the PGA is trying to create the next Arnie or Jack, no one has measured up since Tiger lost his game.
 
Today's best - McIlroy, DJ, Dufner, Day, Bubba, Rose, Spieth - all played the same course as the 'Charlies' you called out. Only one of these wind blown farts made the cut, and he is currently an also ran. That was on a very forgiving course that was softened by rain and unguarded by wind. That's a pretty good test of golf.
 
Sorry Jim, you still have to earn it. Just ask Sam, Ben, Arnie, Jack or Tiger.
 
They could have listed a phony par, maybe a 70 like they did at Oakmont last year. The Par 70 for that Open was bogus, Oakmont is a Par 71 course. That computes to a minus 8 winning score for Dustin Johnson in 2016. Are you willing to bet the winner at Erin Hills today will be better than -8? Maybe, the winds should be under 15 mph when the leaders make the turn.
 
I don't think minus 20 is going to be the winning score, so your John Deere Classic comment is silly.
 
Jim
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ChiTownDiner
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Re: The 2017 U.S. Open @ Erin Hills 2017/06/18 14:54:40 (permalink)
Stay off the blimp...
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JRPfeff
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Re: The 2017 U.S. Open @ Erin Hills 2017/06/18 15:58:34 (permalink)
MetroplexJim
...  and one 145# colorless geek clown to break it !!!  Fearing disdain and laughter, No commentator will ever refer to Justin Thomas' 9 under round in the same breath as Miller's stunning round at Oakmont.  I hope J.B Holmes bitch-slaps a 61 on that faux-links track today and waddles off with the Open!

Jim - You like the big guys, because we all know golf is about physical size and power.
 
The Question: 5'9", 145 pounds: Is that 3rd Round leader Brian Harman or #2 Justin Thomas?
 
MetroplexJim
Last summer I went to the final round of The Open at Royal Troon and witnessed an epic battle between Stenson and Mickelson.  So let me tell American designers a little 'secret' - if you took Royal Troon away from the harsh, bitter winds sweeping off the Firth of Clyde and put it in calm breezes of Wisconsin interior pasture land it would be a dog track.  By the same token, put Erin Hills hard by the Firth of Forth and, with more maturity it would be hailed as a cathedral of golf
 
-----------------------------
 
A 61 is out there today.  Go, J.B. Holmes !!!
 

The winds have arrived. Sorry J.B. & MetroJim. Minus 1 thru 5.
 
 
The Answer: Trick question, that was Ben Hogan.
 
And yes, that round will always be mentioned in the same breath as Miller's. (It was really at Oakmont? Who gives a $#!+? )
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MetroplexJim
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Re: The 2017 U.S. Open @ Erin Hills 2017/06/18 15:59:46 (permalink)
Jim,
 
Guilty!  I am more than a bit nostalgic for 'eras' dominated by 2 - 3 'all-time greats'.  Such dominance makes the game more entertaining; even when an Orville Moody enjoys the best week of their lives it is that much sweeter.
 
Back to Erin Hills ... it is nice 'for what it is', a premium course for those who want to sample the flavor of links golf but don't have the resources to go to Ballybunion.  It is a novelty, not a suitable venue for the U.S. Open - and the unprecedented plethora of "record-tying & setting" rounds prove it. 
 
I will say though that play was much more interesting this morning in a stiff, warm breeze.  As I said, put Erin Hills on Scotland's coast and you'd really have something.  But, the wind is down for the afternoon and the largely anonymous 'Paycheck Charlies' are licking their chops.  I can hardly wait to see who Erin Hills "identifies".
 
As for your contention that 70 as a 'phony par' for Oakmont:  7250/34 is = 213; 7800/36 is 217, so both courses seem to have par in the same proportion as length.
 
If it makes you feel any better, Texas doesn't have any courses worthy of a U.S. Open either.
 
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JRPfeff
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Re: The 2017 U.S. Open @ Erin Hills 2017/06/18 17:43:35 (permalink)
I think that without the big names, my interest in the course is lessened. Too bad, but it has made the tourney kind of dull for me.
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MilwFoodlovers
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Re: The 2017 U.S. Open @ Erin Hills 2017/06/18 20:49:33 (permalink)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Koepka  Sorry Jim but today's golfers are  athletes unlike the champions of old. Billy Casper, Dr. Julius Boros, Craig Stadler, et all were great in their day but wouldn't be champs today. I don't remember the title but there was a tell all book maybe in the 1960's that told of the golf floozies that rewarded the young players, the bennies the golfers took, the hard drinking that went on. Today's top golfers avoid red meat, have personal trainers, exercise and probably go to bed by 10pm. They are faceless and interchangeable. But they are in shape. I'd like to see video of the Fresh Meadow Country Club where Gene Sarazen won in 1932 or the Philadelphia Country Club where Byron Nelson won in 1939 or the Riviera where Ben Hogan won in 1948. I'll bet none of them had greens as fast as Erin Hills or rough like it. They were different times but today's golfers have a much more difficult course in Erin Hills than any going back more than 25 years ago. There were so few golfers of todays caliber back then that we remember their names. That said, Erin Hills probably is too wide to be mentioned in the same breath as Merion or the Olympic.
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Re: The 2017 U.S. Open @ Erin Hills 2017/06/18 20:57:44 (permalink)
Watching the final round, there wasn't one hole at Erin Hills that I expected Koepka to blow. Nothing scary at all on the course.
 
I think the USGA got spooked by the potential bloodbath and made it play easy. The mowed back the rough early, and today they left the greens soft and shied away from the killer hole placements. It showed.
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MetroplexJim
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Re: The 2017 U.S. Open @ Erin Hills 2017/06/18 21:07:02 (permalink)
JRPfeff
 
They could have listed a phony par, maybe a 70 like they did at Oakmont last year. The Par 70 for that Open was bogus, Oakmont is a Par 71 course. That computes to a minus 8 winning score for Dustin Johnson in 2016. Are you willing to bet the winner at Erin Hills today will be better than -8? Maybe, the winds should be under 15 mph when the leaders make the turn.
 

 
As I mentioned above, yards/full stroke are the same at the magnificent par 70 Oakmont and the lovely par 72 Erin Hills.
 
But ... my, how short - and selective - memories are.  Please recall that Oakmont was inundated by days of torrential rain and three rounds were played with 'lift, clean, and place'.  Balls didn't roll into the treacherous rough and the finest, most ferocious greens in the world were rendered relatively defenseless. 
 
Had the 2016 Open been played in fair weather, as was in 2007, there would have been no red on the scoreboard.  That year Tiger shot +6 and lost by 1.
 
JRPfeff 
I don't think minus 20 is going to be the winning score, so your John Deere Classic comment is silly.



Yeah, Koepka only tied the record for the lowest score in relation to par for a U.S. Open.  Actually, the kid looked pretty good and will likely win more majors.  I started rooting for him after they told me that he is the grandnephew of Dick Groat, the NL MVP & batting champ shortstop for the World Champion 1960 Pirates!
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MetroplexJim
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Re: The 2017 U.S. Open @ Erin Hills 2017/06/18 21:59:37 (permalink)
MilwFoodlovers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Koepka  Sorry Jim but today's golfers are  athletes unlike the champions of old. Billy Casper, Dr. Julius Boros, Craig Stadler, et all were great in their day but wouldn't be champs today. I don't remember the title but there was a tell all book maybe in the 1960's that told of the golf floozies that rewarded the young players, the bennies the golfers took, the hard drinking that went on. Today's top golfers avoid red meat, have personal trainers, exercise and probably go to bed by 10pm. They are faceless and interchangeable. But they are in shape. I'd like to see video of the Fresh Meadow Country Club where Gene Sarazen won in 1932 or the Philadelphia Country Club where Byron Nelson won in 1939 or the Riviera where Ben Hogan won in 1948. I'll bet none of them had greens as fast as Erin Hills or rough like it. They were different times but today's golfers have a much more difficult course in Erin Hills than any going back more than 25 years ago. There were so few golfers of todays caliber back then that we remember their names. That said, Erin Hills probably is too wide to be mentioned in the same breath as Merion or the Olympic.



I really cannot disagree with anything you said, but I will say that if we transported Koepka back to the year of my birth, gave him the finest equipment of the day, a few months to practice with it, and put him into the 1948 U.S. Open, my money would be on Hogan.
 
Snead was an athlete, so was Palmer.  Yes, they were the exceptions.  But they, like the other great golfers possessed "a particular set of skills".
 

 
To me, there is "in shape" (Tiger, D.J., Koepka) and in "golf shape", e.g., Phil Mickelson who lost his man boobs and gained strength, but not at the expense of flexibility and the ability to coordinate and execute that "particular set of skills".  "Golf shape" plays; Tiger is the unfortunate poster boy for the perils of over-training.
 
 
 
 
post edited by MetroplexJim - 2017/06/18 22:01:45
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Re: The 2017 U.S. Open @ Erin Hills 2017/06/19 08:31:35 (permalink)
Did Shooter McGavin make the cut?
 
I played golf once. Once.  A goose spit at me as I approached the 6th tee.  I repaired to the club house to tipple and supp.
 
"........ a good walk spoiled".
 

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MetroplexJim
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Re: The 2017 U.S. Open @ Erin Hills 2017/06/19 10:03:16 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby MilwFoodlovers 2017/06/19 11:48:40
eruby
Did Shooter McGavin make the cut?



No, last he was seen he was trying to get away from some huge guy chasing him off the premises.
 
With no water hazards, Roy McAvoy would have gone 20 under on that course!
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Re: The 2017 U.S. Open @ Erin Hills 2017/06/23 16:37:20 (permalink)
Get ready for more.

Oh! Sounds like they are.
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MetroplexJim
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Re: The 2017 U.S. Open @ Erin Hills 2017/06/24 11:26:53 (permalink)
Believing that the U.S. Open will return to Erin Hills is blind Babbitry.
 
After they got the blimp flying the overhead shots displayed the hubris of the design - even though the course is surrounded by woods there is hardly a tree on the premises.  For all the yik-yak about the design following the "natural contours", it's about as in-natural as a parkland course set in Dubai !
 
Helpful hint to the Babbits who yearn for another U.S. Open in Wisconsin:  make the short trip here and take notes.  Or, plant some trees at Erin Hills and wait.
 
EDIT:  Just so you don't think I'm taking "cheap shots" at Wisconsin, the Babbits here in Dallas are undertaking the same folly at Trinity Forest.  Donald Ross and A. W. Tillinghast are laughing from Beyond.
post edited by MetroplexJim - 2017/06/24 11:39:41
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JRPfeff
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Re: The 2017 U.S. Open @ Erin Hills 2017/06/24 11:33:54 (permalink)
This is the USGA and it is all about the $$$'s. When they get done with the 2017 U.S. Open accounting, it will be a no-brainer for returning rapidly or never again.
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MetroplexJim
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Re: The 2017 U.S. Open @ Erin Hills 2017/06/24 12:10:25 (permalink)
JRPfeff
This is the USGA and it is all about the $$$'s. When they get done with the 2017 U.S. Open accounting, it will be a no-brainer for returning rapidly or never again.



Rule #1 for the USGA regarding U.S. Open venues is that "Par is not Mocked". 
 
Seven players, for the most part "Paycheck Charlies", were double digits under.  When the estimable McIlroy went 16 under he was the only one "double digits"; still, Congressional won't be seeing another U.S. Open either.  And for the same reason:  par was mocked.
 
Hell, if the USGA just wanted to make money they'd play the U.S. Open in the God-forsaken artificial city of Las Vegas.
 
EDIT: And, trust me, Shinnecock is installing rebar under The Redan as we speak!  There will be no red on that scoreboard.
post edited by MetroplexJim - 2017/06/24 12:16:33
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JRPfeff
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Re: The 2017 U.S. Open @ Erin Hills 2017/06/24 13:39:45 (permalink)
Flagged you MetroplexJim. Keep the name calling off of Roadfood.
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MetroplexJim
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Re: The 2017 U.S. Open @ Erin Hills 2017/06/24 14:00:42 (permalink)
JRPfeff
Flagged you MetroplexJim. Keep the name calling off of Roadfood.




Making allusion to a Sinclair Lewis character is "name calling"? !
Boy, that's a new one.
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Re: The 2017 U.S. Open @ Erin Hills 2017/06/25 15:45:38 (permalink)
MetroplexJim
JRPfeff
Flagged you MetroplexJim. Keep the name calling off of Roadfood.




Making allusion to a Sinclair Lewis character is "name calling"? !
Boy, that's a new one.




Rain Man weeps. Definitely weeps.
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JRPfeff
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Re: The 2017 U.S. Open @ Erin Hills 2018/06/17 21:02:13 (permalink)
MetroplexJim becomes Carnac the Magnificent:
 
"Yeah, Koepka only tied the record for the lowest score in relation to par for a U.S. Open.  Actually, the kid looked pretty good and will likely win more majors."
 
"EDIT: And, trust me, Shinnecock is installing rebar under The Redan as we speak!  There will be no red on that scoreboard."
 
post edited by JRPfeff - 2018/06/18 09:39:08
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MetroplexJim
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Re: The 2017 U.S. Open @ Erin Hills 2018/06/28 11:22:26 (permalink)
JRPfeff
MetroplexJim becomes Carnac the Magnificent:
 
"Yeah, Koepka only tied the record for the lowest score in relation to par for a U.S. Open.  Actually, the kid looked pretty good and will likely win more majors."
 
"EDIT: And, trust me, Shinnecock is installing rebar under The Redan as we speak!  There will be no red on that scoreboard."
 

 

 
 
 
 
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MetroplexJim
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Re: The 2017 U.S. Open @ Erin Hills 2018/06/28 12:31:30 (permalink)
As we were on vacation, my inclination to do a U.S. Open thread was outweighed by my disinclination to do it on an iPad.
 
As it did in 2004, Shinnecock yet again 'lost' its course.  And again, Phil Mickelson was a victim and he blew his stack.  That course is tough enough without screwing with the integrity of the Tournament. 
 
They should have 'manned up' like Oakmont did when that even more testing of a course was drenched for three days of the 2016 Open and accepted -4 as the winning score.  Golf's cathedrals don't need to be 'tricked up'!
 
Oakmont will be back in 2025 and, with normal weather, +3 will take the trophy.
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MetroplexJim
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Re: The 2017 U.S. Open @ Erin Hills 2018/09/23 16:29:32 (permalink)
I have re-titled this thread as The Game is far, far more than "smack talk" about Chamber's Bay or Erin Hills.
 
I love this game for selfish reason:  at three score and ten I still retain some skills that are useful in its play.  In a happily non-consequential way it brings out both the best and worst in me.  It is a contest worthy of respect.
 
EDIT:  Of course, my bringing this thread back is the return of Mr. Woods, possibly "the Greatest of All-Time".
 
We shall see. 
 
In the meantime I am enjoying his return to championship competence immensely.
 
 
 
post edited by MetroplexJim - 2018/09/25 17:21:30
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