Indian Recipes & Techniques

2011/07/10 00:25:03
Hi Wookman,
This one's for you!!
For your area, I find several stores listed in the directory below & you may know of more:
Let me help you decode some signals within names of stores!!
New Desi Bazar
And Halal Meat
All Pakistan And Indian Grocery
This means owned by Pakistani folk, so excellent cuts of meat for kebabs & biryani & very good packaged spice mixes from Pakistan. Insist  on NATIONAL or LAZIZA brand BIRYANI spice mix, and others. Great advice for meat cookery & chickpeas and Punjabi style/Muslim cooking. They will be happy you asked. They will be able to get you fresh chicken, maybe, karahi cut, Boer kid goat, good lamb etc.
Spice Bazaar & the Spice Center:
No tell-tale marks of origin!!
There are 2 obvious Indian-owned stores:
Here you will find
Amul Ghee, 2lb cans,  US$12-13 a good price. This is a good cooking ghee. Get 1 if price OK & you can.
Golden Temple ghee, check the price. Reasonably good.
New Vrindavan cow ghee. Ditto, good for eating on hot rice, ok to pay a couple of $$ more, but not exorbitantly more.
Useful to buy:
Nigella seed, Kalonji  4 oz
Fenugreek seed, Methi, small pk
Fennel seed, small pk,
Brown/black mustard, 4 oz pk
Cumin seed, 7 oz pk
Coriander seed, 7 oz pk
Turmeric powder, 7 oz
Aromatic red pepper,
[any type, not very hot. Korean Kochugaru type excellent, warm unsmoked paprika ditto, or New Mexico type. Flavor & color KEY, NOT heat. In Indian terms, BYADGI chillies or Kashmiri chillies. Whole best, you know what you are getting!]
Indian CASSIA leaves, can find at iShopIndian [ called Tejpatta, not to be confused with Bay leaves]
Mace, whole arils, much better than powder, called JAAVITRI, found cheap at iShopIndian or PatelBros. Not Much!
Nutmeg, if you can get 1-3 nuts loose.
Cassia bark, called cinnamon, at these places, in 3 or 4 oz bags. If larger bags, freeze them.
Green cardamom
Black cardamom. optional, but useful.
Cloves, whole
Peppercorns, black
Shahzeera, which is NOT caraway. Ask the Pakistanis, not necessary yet.
Dried Mango Powder, Amchur [purely optional souring agent]
Chaat Masala
Chickpea Masala
LAXMI brand tamarind concentrate, the light brown one in the GLASS bottle, NO OTHER, seriously!!!!
Kewra water if you will be making biryani, 1 bottle. The stuff sold here is bad. Ask Pakistanis if they have ROOH KEWRA or KEWRA ATTAR. That is when you are an expert! Titanium mountain bike!
IF you buy saffron, get it from Vanilla Imports. Buy 1oz, Afghan, $80. Mine has lasted 10 years in the freezer, the same ounce!!! So strong.
Also buy a cheap coffee grinder to ONLY grind spices and I assume you have an Oster type kitchen blender.
Next I shall post actual recipes.
Please exhaustively query me and satisfy your smallest doubts. You are NOT supposed to know anything, and I am here to negotiate the unfamiliar.
Let me know what types of foods you like, e.g. vegetarian, meat, chicken, etc. & we can focus on those.
Note: Restaurant cooking, like Chinese restaurant cookery, focuses on Feast dishes, and is VERY RICH. HOME COOKING in India is VERY SIMPLE & spice free. Throughout Bengal & Maharashtra, home to 180 million people,  for example, a staple meal & beloved comfort food is sada varan: a lentil boiled plain and eaten with rice, salt, a slice of lime and a drop of ghee. Nothing else! I eat this all the time, almost every afternoon! REAL Indians eat very simply: low fat, frugal meals that would astound you.

post edited by pimple2 - 2011/07/10 00:44:42
Re:Indian Recipes & Techniques 2011/07/10 03:52:24
My gosh pimple2 ... what a lot of effort you put into this. I will be scouting these stores right away and thanks a million!! I'll try to lay in some basic ingredients before you post any recipes.
post edited by wookman8 - 2011/07/10 04:03:39
Junior Burger
Re:Indian Recipes & Techniques 2011/07/10 07:00:57
Is there a reason why some Pakistani or Indo-Pak restaurants use a lot of oil or ghee in preparing food?  I typically go for the buffet but have ordered Karahi before.
Also, I bought a quick Haleem mix and it calls for a cup of ghee for a 4 serving meal.
Most of the restaurants here in the DC area use an incredible amount of oil.  We're talking an inch or more floating above the meat or lentils.  One restaurant I went to usually had two inches floating on top.  I love the paya, haleem, & chickpeas but I just can't handle all the oil.  I know it helps keep the meat from drying out on a steam table but still... some of these places are using buckets of grease.
Re:Indian Recipes & Techniques 2011/07/10 14:03:59
This is a very desired & LOVED state of affairs for North Indian Muslim [by extension Pakistani] cookery. I can only speculate that the orgins of Qorma began with QOVURMA, a true confit of ground meat stored over winter in Iran under a thick layer of fat, but used sparingly to flavor other dishes.
Modern Pakistani  banquet cooking is dangerously overboard in oil, and if I may say so, so is the home cooking of the middle & upper classes. This is not a criticism but a concerned observation of a friend. Fat = Flavor is true, but our sedentary lives disallow consuming much more than 2000 Calories/day, or much fewer the better, and low in fats and carbs, high in fruits, veggies. That is our situation in the USA.
I suggest that we cook the recipes I write down, which are for restaurant style meats, in non-stick Joyce Chen type woks. First cook them ONCE the full fat style, then evermore the LOW fat way, cutting down 80% on the fat without affecting taste. This way, I can enjoy biryani more often without punishing my body!  I shall show you how. Lamb fat is the most dangerous, as a Canadian Govt. study discovered.
Europeans found out poultry  fat is carcinogenic in certain contexts. Too much is always bad. The human body has evolved to thrive under NEAR STARVATION conditions. That is an unpalatable truth we children of an affluent society cannot digest. Our US male Body Mass Index is today about 28, very close to the 30 indicating obesity.
I am a membrane biochemist, i.e. a lipid biochemist, therefore someone keenly alive to the hazards of lipids!!
You will note my cautionary little explanation  about how Indians actually eat in their homes. I shall strive to introduce such home cooking & link to sites with home cooking recipes from various regions and communities.
Re: the Haleem, reduce the ghee to a couple of teaspoons of great quality stuff for flavor ONLY, and put them in at the very end right before serving. Use some healthy oil like grapeseed, peanut, almond, walnut, canola, in very judicious quantities for any sauteeing of spices. Olive oil has too strong a flavor.
I shall show you a method to cook the onion base that is at the heart of many Muslim braises, without the oil. You add the oil in at first but it all comes out.
Use as many lbs as you are capable of handling, hard yellow onions, peeled, sliced very very thin along the root-stern [North-South pole] axis.  Here's the time to bring out those expensive Japanese knives, or at least your Chinese cleavers with broad blades, because a German chef's knife is too thick & does a poor job. A thin carbon steel Sabatier or even a $3 Victorinox paring knife is excellent!! No need for a $300 Japanese model peacock metal!
Place in heavy bottomed saucepan, like a Vollrath,  and submerge in vegetable oil by a good inch or three. Place on a moderate flame and cover tightly. This may take 40 min & your close attention, so doing a big lot & freezing is useful. The onion-flavored oil is very good for cooking OR we generally slow-brown a big batch of garlic in it. You can buy 1 gal jars of garlic at restaurant supply.  Do  1/2 gallon & freeze, & whiz the other raw 1/2 gallon raw in processor & freeze in tupperware, not freezer bags!!!
Now you have golden oil that you should cool. Take a portion.  Cut pork LOIN medallions, pound, and soak 8 hours in this oil. Either make chicken fried steak or  eggwash-crumb & griddle fry. Also soak the leaner cuts like tenderloin medallions, beef & pork, and griddle, for great sandwiches.
This oil is ready to be cooked into chicken & meat curries, lentils, & pilafs.
So, back to the onions.
Don't look, but first the onions will seem to collapse into a grey mass.
Then, that mass will begin to coalesce into discrete clumps.
Next, these clumps will begin to achieve definition, as the finely cut onions will begin to reappear around an invisible center.
Now, you may remove the cover and peer with rising anticipation! Carefully raise heat & carefully stir with cooking fork.  Stir frequently as browning begins.  As soon as pale golden color appears, remove to plate, having pressed out as much oil as possible. They will continue to turn deeper in color on plate.
Each of the 4 stages of onionhood has specific uses in various dishes. In large-scale cookery, big globs of stage 1, 2, 3, & finally 4 are retrieved from the same witch's cauldron. But those days are gone. They boil the onions  in the US restaurants today, accounting for the horrific taste and sameness everywhere.
Anyway, you have retrieved the golden onions. a tiny amount from even 4 lbs raw, you will discover!! Treasure them, for you will have upset the S.O. no end, with your oniony endeavors.
Now, you can cook delicious chicken curries, qormas, liver, biryanis, a number of lovely Anglo-Indian dishes, etc.  if you have this stuff sitting frozen in small portions in your freezer.
post edited by pimple2 - 2011/07/10 14:12:31
Re:Indian Recipes & Techniques 2011/07/10 14:39:50
Edmonton is blessed with extraordinary meats, but also with a thriving cosmopolitan scene. Large numbers of Chinese work in the meat-processing industries. That means many INTERESTING cuts of  pork & beef that would not be available in other N. American markets are probably retailed owing to this labor base.  These mixed parts make for the flavors & gelatin necessary in Indian meat cooking.
Below is an AUTHENTIC VINDALOO. It is NEVER HOT!!!!!  It should be made of pork which has bones, meat, rind and fat in pleasing balance. Fresh ham hock, i.e. the fresh shanks, are an excellent cut, with a trotter thrown in for gelatin. Neck and shoulder (with skin & bones) are very,very good, cut into fairly large chunks.
If you go to the Oriental grocery, please keep your eyes peeled for PALM VINEGAR, often a FILIPINO product. This is ideal for the following dish. Use white vinegar, if not available.
Re:Indian Recipes & Techniques 2011/07/10 14:57:31
You are most welcome. No effort, really. Hopefully, you will come to enjoy your Indian cooking experience a bit better by having things clearly laid out. Your pleasure and fulfillment in discovering a new culture is my reward, so I should thank you!!
Re:Indian Recipes & Techniques 2011/07/10 15:43:15
I have a friend who owns a restaurant in D.C. Spinach cooked with fresh cheese curd or with lamb is a great favorite in Indian restaurants. Here, Mr. Bhasin describes in his own words how he prefers his own to be cooked and what SELLS in the restaurant!!
Balraj Bhasin’s SAG PANEER I
heat oil
add chopped ginger and green chillies, saute but do not brown.
add chopped onions saute till tranclucent
add salt and some cayenne
add thawed frozen chopped spinach.
cook till done, do not overcook as the color will turn blackish
when an order of saag paneer comes in
take some of the above spinach (which is not pureed)
add some restaurant style basic onion gravy
add some cubes of paneer
add some diced tomato
add a tad of heavy cream
add a pinch of dried methi leaves
heat through
I like this version for its lightness, fresh appearance and and simple taste of spinach and ginger with the fenugreek in the background.

this version is very tasty, though a little rich and heavy. but if you just want some saag with tandoori roti, this is it.
the chef puts the frozen chopped spinach to cook in a large pot.
in another he prepares the tarka
heat oil ( and he takes plenty of it)
add sliced onions and when they begin to caramalize and turn light brown
add ginger and garlic paste
add salt, little turmeric, little cumin, garam masalla, and a hefty amount of corriander powder saute a few minutes
add diced tomatoes and tomato puree. cook till it leaves the oil
add this 'tarka' to the cooked spinach.
Puree the whole thing and add
dried methi leaves
and yes, sour cream
cook some more and you are done.

Re:Indian Recipes & Techniques 2011/07/10 16:16:36
pimple2,  I have eaten an Indian cabbage dish that was described to me as peasant food or food that you'd never give guests.  It was one of the most delicious Indian dishes I have ever had.
The first time it was served to me by an East Indian from Fiji (I think).
It was the next time when I had it that I was told I could never find it in a restaurant.
Would you know of such a dish?  It was sort of a sweet and spicy stirfry.
Re:Indian Recipes & Techniques 2011/07/10 17:51:32
Would you be able to describe it a little more? Did it have grated coconuts? Fiji Indians, like the Caribbean, South African, & other diaspora, [total about 22 million!] have each evolved regional styles quite different from the mother country!
The basic technique is thus:
finely shredded cabbage
in scant hot vegetable oil, in goes these "tempering spices":
black mustard seed, whole cumin seed, whole dry red pepper,  often fresh curry leaves [dry available here, but fresh in CA]
urad dal [split, hulled black gram], & Asafetida powder, a pinch
Immediately, cabbage, toss around, salt, sprinkle water by flicking with fingers to create steam, cover, and cook quickly to crisp-tender.
Refresh with a squeeze of lemon or lime.  Cilantro or mint optional. Serve with hot Jasmine Rice, and some Red Lentils.
  Some styles may have added roasted powdered spice mixes like TONAK Masala before covering, but not necessary.
Uncover, add fresh frozen grated coconut like Goya brand, brown sugar to taste, chopped green thai chilies, toss, remove.
That is only an approximation.
You understand that I am making a wild guess at how your friend may have cooked his/her cabbage!! India has more than 3000 endogamous communities, i.e. those that intermarry exclusively within each other. Each maintains exclusive cooking traditions, that only within the past 25 years have become national.
That is another thing I should like Americans to realize! India, and the subcontinent, geographcally is LARGER than WESTERN EUROPE minus Russia, and VASTLY more complex, culturally, racially, linguistically [1165 languages, 22 national languages, how many in Europe?!!].
Is there anything called European cuisine? So, how could there be  "Indian" food? America is discovering the fun of regional Chinese cooking. I hope that the same applies to the regional cooking of India ( & South East Asia) too.
In CA, Sunnyvale has some top-notch Tamil vegetarian restaurants. Please try them out. A different experience! VERY crowded on weekends & special holidays, so DON'T GO then. Please call & make sure & never order north Indian food there!!! Elementary, but I know people that order sag paneer in South Indian or Gujarati restaurants and come away feeling cheated!! Would you order pulled pork at someplace called Napoli or Pepe's?
There could be many more regional Indian styles hiding in CA that I am not aware of.  I know of the Bangladeshi ones. There may be Fijian Indians there because there are surely many Fijians & Pacific Islanders in CA. Perhaps you might be able to seek out someone more knowledgeable than I am?
I was told that if one has not tasted the fruit grown in the soil of Fiji, e.g. pineapples and coconuts, one's life has been in vain. I hope you have had a chance to visit there!!!!!
4 cups coriander seed
2 teaspoons peppercorns
3 teaspoons cloves
2 teaspoons cumin seeds
14 green cardamoms
2-3 teaspoons of small cinnamon sticks
1 whole nutmeg, cracked to smaller pieces

1. Dry roast each of the spices separately. The cinnamon, nutmeg and peppercorns may be roasted together. Be careful not to over-roast.
2. Cool and grind to a powder. Store in an airtight container.

 From Ishtann - The Best Of Goan Saraswat Cuisine by Padma Mahale, translated from Konkani by Sapna Sardessai.

post edited by pimple2 - 2011/07/10 17:59:01
Re:Indian Recipes & Techniques 2011/07/10 18:20:22
Thanks,  As far as I know there wasn't any coconut present.  The cabbage wasn't shredded, but I will try your recipe.
Thanks again.
Re:Indian Recipes & Techniques 2011/07/10 21:08:35
Can you describe your original dish more fully? That would give me more to work on!
Cabbage --- sweet & spicy stirfry - not shredded- may be of Fijian provenance
Not many clues there!!
post edited by pimple2 - 2011/07/10 21:11:47
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Indian Recipes & Techniques 2011/07/10 23:38:02



Ah....I think any recipe that starts with 15 Kashmiri chiles is going to be quite hot. Vindaloo is spicy. I've made tons of Goan food and eaten it abroad. Vindaloo is hot.
Re:Indian Recipes & Techniques 2011/07/11 01:01:13
I needed to be very specific with reference to a particular concept about "vindaloo" that is very widespread in the UK & has gained currency in the USA, along with another curious invented curryhouse dish named "phal". In both of these, the idea is to outcompete your drunken companions in the heat quotient, so much so that VINDALOO has come to be synonymous with something blindingly hot. No taste, fools competing with each other.
I have just made the same recipe today, just to try out the heat levels. I am 51, and since the age of 4, have tried many, many types of vindaloo, Goan, East Indian, Anglo-Indian,  Parsi, and the many redactions employed in a broad swath of India: goat, duck, pork etc. All prepared by their native cooks, in Calcutta, my home, and elsewhere in India.
You need to know what is being written as well. A Goan writing about KASHMIRI chilies is going to be using BYADGI chilies from Karnataka.He know this very well. DEGI MIRCH from Kashmir are not really available outside the region, unless you go & buy them there. I have eaten them and like the Hungarian BOLDOG variety of paprika, they vary in heat.
How hot are Byadgi chilies, do you suppose? The vindaloo can be hot, but spicy hot, not fiery. What are we argung about? The nuances of heat?  How much MORE you know about Goan cooking?  Well wonderful!!!! This is not a one-upmanship show, you know, just a place where friends try to help each other.
I find your comments rather inane, if I may say so. You remind me of the drunken British curry house boys: My Vindaloo is more correct than your Vindaloo. Same mindset. Pugnacity void of either knowledge or grace.
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Indian Recipes & Techniques 2011/07/11 08:55:55
No drunken curry house boy mindset here. Just stating that a recipe with 15 Kashmiri chilies that are available here in the US is going to be hot, not necessarily fiery, but for American palates, hot. I do know quite a bit about Goan cooking and other regional Indian cooking.  I have cooked with numerous South Asians and Pakistanis.  I learned a great deal from all of them. Sadly, I haven't had the good fortune to cook in India, so my limited knowledge is confined to those ingredients available here in the US and in the UK.  As always, there is still much to learn and I would surely learn from you. You lngredients List is masterful. This thread and the recipes are enjoyable. I would imagine in a country as populous as India, there are as many strong opinions about what is authentic and what is not, as there are right here on Roadfood.
Re:Indian Recipes & Techniques 2011/07/11 10:20:12
1. Sadly, true Kashmiri Chilies are not found anywhere here. I have seeds with me. Your best bet would be the finest Hungarian warm paprika or Turkish Ufra (?) pepper. BTW, Goa has the CHILTEPIN, which they call CLOVE CHILLIES. That is what is HOT, versus, not Hot. Byadgi Chilies are mild, like Chiles Coloraditos. I don't know who sells what as Kashmir chillies in the US, because that is all mislabelled! Like Tuscan EVOO!
2. The "Goan" cooking you speak of, the FAMILIAR FEW, is a small subset of the Christian/Portuguese cookery. Within this genre, there is quite a significant geographical variation, that today is not well-recognized by "outsiders" : north to south, and coast to inland. Existing side by side, is a Hindu cookery, unique in its spicing and use of ingredients. For example, there is a "Christian" green mango preparation with ground mustard of significant complexity, and another "Hindu" shagoth or Xacuti  of ripe cashew fruit of equal complexity. Yet, rarely do people recognize either for the GOAN cooking they both represent.
3. The several Brahman communities of the Konkan coast, including Goa, are no less Goan, being part of the ancient inhabitants. Their cooking is Goan as well.
With regard to the Syrian Christian cookery, too, of Kerala, there is often a  similar rush to judgment in the USA: since I have cooked with XYZ, I  "know" about that community's cuisine. Things in India are infinitely more nuanced. There are geographical and historical layerings to her communities, and various meats like beef & pork, enthusiastically eaten in one part of the Syrian Christian domain, is shunned in another. Therefore, it may surprise many that signature beef dishes apparently associated with the community are NOT so for all!
Likewise, many modern Bengalis do things a particular way because they are woefully ignorant, especially those in the US. That includes cookbook authors of renown!! Just because they are articulate in English & blog with gusto, does not make them expert!
4. "Vindaloo" is a word that has been completely degraded by the curry house usage. It pains me to see that word and the machismo associated with Chile heat, something that independently of vindaloo, has been taking root in the US. You find "reviewers" of "Indian" restaurants complaining, The food was fine but not hot enough! Maybe it was not supposed to be hot!
5. This particular thread is not about vindaloo, Goan food, or any such digression. In response to a SPECIFIC request by Wookman,  this thread was created to explore SINGLE flavor principles in Indian cookery, to help him untangle the complexity of flavors. Until he gets his groceries purchased, we are merely treading water, with  inconsequential tidbits from here & there for interest.
Re:Indian Recipes & Techniques 2011/07/12 06:06:23
Sorry pimple2 ... I did not mean to slow your discourse ... I have picked up quite a few ingredients (thanks again for the specific guidance) and am enjoying your food history lesson. I think this thread will be well-read and appreciated by the roadfood community.
Re:Indian Recipes & Techniques 2011/07/12 15:18:00
Hi Wookman,
Thanks to you, I learnt something very interesting about Edmonton. The FIRST MOSQUE in North America (!!) was established there by a very distinguished individual,  Abdullah Yusuf Ali, who visited in 1938.  He was a member of the Indian Civil Service of British India, a prestige that cannot adequately be appreciated in this time and society. Among his other claims to fame was a profound exegesis of the holy Quran in English.
Today, there is a thriving Pakistani community there, including a scholar named Faheem Khan. I write all this down, because if you demonstrate familiarity with such details, you will be amazed by the warmth shown to you by this community which is feeling misunderstood & hurt by the mainstream.
The material benefit may be invitations to a family meal, and a willingness to teach you how to cook their favorites, from the heart. There is no substitute for hands-on training. Especially, upper-class individuals like Faheem Khan command culinary resources well-worth investigation & careful cultivation.
None of this might transpire. The best laid plans of mice & men........!!
Re:Indian Recipes & Techniques 2011/07/17 22:23:43
Hi Wookman,
Since this thread was created by your request, where would you like to start?
You had wanted to find some keys to Indian flavor principles.
Generally, I work like this, beginning with vegetable cookery, but you may wish to begin with meats, too.
1. Cubed potato, scrubbed, skin on, separately, Idaho russets, Yukon Gold. Red Bliss, + Nigella seeds, & Ghee, or butter, dry cooked.
2. Cubed acorn squash, Nigella, ghee, dry.
3.  Cauliflower florets, fresh, ditto, no caramelization.
4.  Mix of 1& 2, and 1 & 3, and 1,2, & 3, no caramelization.
All above to be eaten with chapati, or whole wheat tortilla.
B. Same as (A) but substitute cumin seed.
C. Same as (A), add in Indian Cassia Leaf.
D. Same as (B), add in Cassia Leaf.
E. Same as (A), Nigella + Cumin + Cassia Leaf
F. Same as (A), Nigella, Cumin, Fennel, Fenugreek in specific proportion [called Panch Phoran, we leave out 1 element we cannot easily get], + Cassia Leaf. Begin Caramelization techniques.
G. Eggplant + Panch Phoran + elements of caramelization.
Start Teaching Simple Lentil Cookery.
You will notice here that as with Singing, "when you know the notes to sing, you can sing 'most anything".
This approach might seem repetitious & exhausting, but you will internalize the flavor principles of each spice, how particular techniques bring out particular aspects, and how to combine & layer flavors.
Whole black Mustard seed in hot oil contribute a certain flavor, wet ground white & black mustard seeds a completely different flavor, and the same combination mixed with coriander, cumin and black pepper, quite another.  Therefore, it helps to approach each of these via a system.
I am not going to be able to elucidate the vast repertoire of Indian spicing here, but we may touch upon a few regional characteristics.
Re:Indian Recipes & Techniques 2011/07/18 00:23:23
I've found from previous experience, it's much easier to just eat Indian food out at your favorite Indian restaurant. The cooking process is complicated and, the purchase of the many ingredients needed are wasteful and expensive given that they are usually not used often enough. 
Re:Indian Recipes & Techniques 2011/07/18 01:00:32
If you have been following this thread, or even read the previous post carefully, you would have noticed that our friend Wookman requested a guide through the flavor palette & spices of Indian cookery. He is a competent cook and has laid up a store of Indian groceries in preparation for this venture. Now it is time to begin, and he is to call the shots. You are welcome to follow along or not!!
Again, what we are NOT doing, is cooking restaurant food. We are examining the principles of spices. It is precisely ONLY for those who wish to expend mental effort and who wish to learn how to cook Indian food at home, again NOT restaurant food. So, your remarks appear to be entirely gratuituous & fatuous. Quite absurd, in the CONTEXT of this thread.  Is it your intention to intimidate & drive away those who originally wanted to participate here? Look carefully & you will notice members who are just beginning to post.
post edited by pimple2 - 2011/07/18 01:03:35