Conference Realignment 2012

2012/11/25 04:03:18
Well things are stirred up again with Maryland and Rutgers leaving their conferences to join the Big10. Now the question is "Who's Next." This summer the new commissioner of the Big12 had stated that they had no current plans to expand up to 12 members; the SEC was going to wait until they got used to Missouri and A&M before extending another invite. Now rumors are that the SEC is looking at Virginia Tech, and the ACC is looking at Louisville. When WVU left the Big East to come to the Big12, Louisville made a play to be chosen instead. They even got their U.S Senators involved. Rumors are also swirling about Clemson and Florida State not being particularly happy in the ACC.
Here in Kansas, we don't have many options when it comes to athletic conferences. Both KU and KState are governed by the same board and in the past they have made it clear that the schools are a package deal. When the Big10 and the Pac10 were looking at expansion a few years back there was talk that if the Big10 invited Missouri that they might invite Kansas also. Both are members of the American Association of Universities which at the time was a prerequisite to joining the Big10. An interesting sidenote is that Nebraska was a member but was stripped of its membership a year after being invited to join the Big10. If it had happened a year earlier we would be looking at Missouri being a current member of the Big10. KState is not a member and would not have been considered. In addition, KU is known for its' Basketball program not Football. Conference Realignment is being driven by Football not by other sports. Kansas alums fear that if the Big12 falls apart, it may not get invited to join a top tier athletic conference because the conference has to take KState also.  KState alums seem to fear that if the Board of Regents allows each school to go independent that it may end up in a lower prestige conference then KU, so they seem to be heavily against allowing the schools independence.
So, the hope of both schools fans is that the Big12 extends a couple invites within the next couple of weeks. These are the schools most talked about.
1. Louisville - wanted to be invited to join instead of WVU. Sounds like it may have a choice between the Big12 and the ACC. Louisville fans - If it was your choice which conference would you choose? What are the current rumors?
2. Cincinnati - a smaller but excellent football program. Would probably have to expand or replace their stadium if they join one of the more prestigious conferences. Cincinnati fans - Do you think that Cincinnati would join the Big12 if invited?
3. BYU - the Big12 would love to have it as a member but they consider their football program as prestigious as Notre Dame. So, they want to keep their football team independent. In addition, they refuse to play any sports on Sunday, which is a deal breaker. BYU will not be invited to join the Big12.
4. Memphis - on par with Cincinnati in regards to enrollment and market size however their football program is just moving to a BCS Conference for the first time next year. Considered a long shot by sports reporters in the Big12 area.
5. SMU - Has spent the past 20 years in  a lower level conference since the SWC fell apart. Has rebuilt their athletic programs since they received the death penalty. Opinion is that they would like to join. What do you think?
The local thinking is that Louisville and SMU will be invited. If Louisville declines then Cincinnati will get the invite. The Big12 needs one northern and one southern school in order to balance out the conference when they go back to divisions. What rumors are going around where you live in regards to your local schools?
post edited by CNW - 2012/11/25 04:05:02
mayor al
Fire Safety Admin
Re:Conference Realignment 2012 2012/11/25 04:53:49
The U of L Rumor mill is split like you describe  Leaning towards the ACC I think, but that may be old news.
I do think the movement of schools from conference to conference really detracts from the 'over a long period of time' outlook for rivalries and other fan-interest participation activities. 
     Maybe the NCAA should follow the Pros with a North/South/East/West division of the country.  Instead of the NFC/AFC the NCAA could go Public/Private for it's split. Let the championship be the best of each world meeting  in a College Super Bowl on New Years Day.
carlton pierre
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Conference Realignment 2012 2012/11/26 10:31:36
I guess the realignments revolve around $$, but it's making me reassess whether I want to care much in the future about college football.
mayor al
Fire Safety Admin
Re:Conference Realignment 2012 2012/11/28 23:04:37
Louisville announced that it is going to the ACC... for the bucks and TV...nothing said about the players or the fans.
Re:Conference Realignment 2012 2012/11/29 10:59:03
The whole realignment story since Summer 2010 has been a glacially paced disappointment of money grabbing and backstabbing. Schools make promises to each other and back out as soon as another group offers them a small increase in television money. Its all been done with so little public input, even when the schools are owned by the taxpayers. Texas A&M had its Board meet in small groups to avoid open records laws, other schools seem to be given ultimatums by conferences to join within a couple days of closed-door discussion.
Kansas State has academic stature and programs that exceed Nebraska, Kansas is right up there too.  But it seems like the Big Ten Office is being run by East Coast guys who want bigger markets in richer states. Letting Missouri twist in the wind last summer and wind up in the SEC showed they don't care about the Midwest identity. The nonstop rumors and twitter feeds claim the Big 12 wants Florida State, Clemson, and other schools from the ACC. The ACC looks vulnerable to poaching, and the knives could be coming out from the SEC and Big Ten again as well.
Maryland seems like a great place to visit. Charlottesville Virginia has a beautiful campus with a Unesco World Heritage Site. North Carolina is a Public Ivy in a state where people from the Midwest have moved to in droves. I just don't hear any fans anywhere saying they want these schools in the Big Ten Conference.
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Conference Realignment 2012 2012/11/29 12:52:59
I read a long story in Sports Illustrated about the Maryland situation. It said that Maryland athletics was in deep financial trouble and basically had to move to the B10 to rescue its programs.
Re:Conference Realignment 2012 2012/11/29 13:43:52
As I understand it the B1G will only accept Association of American University members. Missouri, North Carolina, Virginia and Kansas would qualify. Rutgers and Maryland are in. Nebraska was at the time of admittance in AAU but now is not. My understanding is the state of Kansas wants Kansas and Kansas State (not AAU) in the same conference. That ain't going to happen with the Big 10. Anyone know why Missouri was rejected? They seemed to me the most natural expansion for the traditional Big 10 ahead of Nebraska.
Louisville just announced they are moving to the ACC.
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Conference Realignment 2012 2012/11/29 15:21:16
I thought Missouri was a much better fit for the B10, but maybe they thought they would make more money from Nebraska football.
Double Chili Cheeseburger
Re:Conference Realignment 2012 2012/11/29 15:48:31
I agree about Missouri being a better fit for the B10. As a Florida Gator fan I follow the SEC closely and Missouri will have to step it up to compete in football. However in basketball and the other sports I believe they hold their own. What was really strange was putting them in the eastern division of the SEC but that mostly had to do with objections to putting Auburn in the east.
As far as Louisville is concerned their football program can excel in the ACC imo and of course their basketball program which is very good will now be in what could be argued the best college basketball conference in the nation. The ACC conference on the whole however seems to be on shaky footing and the rumors of Fla St and Clemson jumping to the SEC are alive again.
Personally I think the next 2-3 years will see all this settled into some stability but it could be a wild ride until then.
Re:Conference Realignment 2012 2012/11/29 16:14:11
This is great news, RE Maryland. that Means, a few things for Penn State, they will have to re-align the non-division "rivalry" and hopefully PSU can go back to the annual Land Grant Trophy game with Mich State.
Also, living in DC area (now in MD) I'll get to see PSU games ever other year, right in my backyard!!!! wahoo!!!
I was hoping that these two teams would go to Big 10. UMd and Rutgets were annual games for PSU before PSU went to Big Ten and the Big East was formed for football. Although PSU dominated both teams, the recruiting out of NJ, and MD was key for PSU because of those games. NJ football is still a great recruiting state for football. So, to have that area out of Big East and ACC country, is good news for PSU, who dominated recruiting in the mid-atlantic back when those schools played annualy.
When the ACC raised the exit fee to $50 million, I though it wouldn't happen. I knew Rutgers would only go to Big 10 IF Maryland went. Otherwise, Rutgers would have gone to ACC. With the high exit fee it didn't seem likely. And that, to me, put some schools like UConn in trouble when the Big East Football conference collapsed to former non-major conference schools. Where would they go? Louisville would have been a good Big 12 pick or even SEC with Kentucky.
Depending on how the lawsuit shakes out between MD and ACC, I can see Flroida State and Miami itching for SEC to round that conference out, leaving the ACC needing to land a louisville like team.
The Big East is taking in ECU and Tulane. To me, this spells the end of the automatic big to BCS. UConn will want out. They will also want to go to ACC. With UMd leaving ACC, and Rutgers to Big Ten, this leaves space and paves the way for UConn to go to the ACC.
New Comer  USF will definately want out. Nothing better could happen for them, than have Florida State and/or Miami move to SEC, allowing room in ACC for them. Otherwise, they are another school looking in from the outside of the mega-conferences.
The Big East Football is quickly becoming much like the old Conference USA , with high-end second tier schools. Leaving Schools like Boise St, who were looking for a crack at automatic BCS on the outside if the Big East football can't hold onto it.
Another school looking from the outside, is Cincinatti. What BCS conference wants them? ACC? no. Big Ten? no way. SEC? yeah right. Big 12? not likely. Puts them right back into a conference like C-USA which they left for the big money of the BCS conference Big East.
Of course, what I think we've learned is that these 16 team mega-conferences, might need another major conference.
We thought we'd be going from 6 majors with 8-12 teams, to 4 megas with 16 teams. Big 12 proved they are not going anywhere. They're not dissolving into PAC and SEC. They're there for good. That's a potential 5 mega conferences. But, still there are good programs looking from the outside of those conferences. Boise State, Utah State, Cincinatti, USF, etc all in the cold, in clearly second tier conferences, the Big East being the top of that 2nd tier, BUUUTTT, a close 2nd in that tier is the MAC conference, who is getting better, and in some cases competing with the bottom of the Big Ten.
Can the MAC grab some of those displaced former BCS schools like Cincinatti (if the Big East loses it's automatic qualifier) to ramp up its status as a conference with a contender? Or Does the Big East remain prominent enough to hold on to that distinction, even with only 1 of the original teams that made it a solid football conference in 1991: Miami, Virginia Tech, Syracuse, Pitt, BC, West Viriginia, Rutgers, and Temple (temple being the only school from 1991, but was voted out, and now is back due to all of this re-alignment crap)
Also, another school for consideration to this new Big East? Navy. I think they'd be a great addition. Although, I don't think their basketball facility would be good enough on that front. Although with the main football schools out, they may be fine. Still, it would be a competative league for them, with a few major program schools, and a few schools that come from non-major conferences, like ECU, Tulane, etc. it's a good schedule that contains tough games and winnable games. Although the travel expenses is going to be huge for any team in the new Big East.
Re:Conference Realignment 2012 2012/11/29 16:18:06
mayor al

Louisville announced that it is going to the ACC... for the bucks and TV...nothing said about the players or the fans.

Proving that Jim Beoheim was 100% correct when he called out Rick Pitino for trying to disparage Syracuse and Pitt for leaving to ACC.
Re:Conference Realignment 2012 2012/11/29 16:29:10
The consolidation of the power conferences comes just a year before the new BCS Bowl and Playoff format. The new format is somehow going to make it harder for outsider teams to get in, even if the playoff expands from 4 to 8 or more teams down the line. The Cotton Bowl and Chic Fil A bowl get invites to the big bowl table, and a spot in the playoff rotation. The conference championship games will be like early rounds of the playoffs, not unlike the 20 team format in 1-AA next season. Its going to be more confusing than back in the nineties when the Bowl Coalition was put together.
Re:Conference Realignment 2012 2012/11/29 16:35:35
CNW - I think Cincinatti is not a good pick for any of the current majors whose name isn't Big East.
However, I can see the reason to like a market the size of Cincinatti. The Big Ten won't take them, neither will SEC. With the Big East collapse to a seemingly second tier C-USA like football conference, I thikn Cincinnatti would jump at the chance to go to Big 12. They will get one Big East rivalry game back, WVU.
I think SMU, a former SWC team, would be a reasonable pick, a renewed rivalry with their Texas kins of Baylor, Texas, Tex A&M, TCU.
Which brings up another form SWC school: Houston, currently in C-USA and has had help from Texas legislators who have been urging the Big 12 to consider UH.
Re:Conference Realignment 2012 2012/11/29 16:52:01
trzhotel: Even though I'm a PSU fan and therfore Big 10 fan, I think the Cotton Bowl is LONG over due to be considered as a BCS bowl.
Maybe Peach, but, Outback and Capital One citrus, have had better teams. for example, Chick-fil-a is SEC #5, while the other two bowls get the SEC #3 and #4.
But, IMO, have 6 BSC games, with four of the top six bowls on the line. Those are played by the #1-8 teams.
The winners play in the the other two top bowls.
Then winner plays BCS Championship at a site of one of the other 4 bowls. The whole thing rotates year by year. the First set of Games on Jan 1, the next set of two games played on the next Sat, Sun or Monday that is at least 5 days later. Then the BCS championship on the next monday that is at least 7 days following the semi-final. Which would likely fall on Martin Luther King Day.
post edited by Scorereader - 2012/11/29 16:54:40
Re:Conference Realignment 2012 2012/11/29 17:34:41
Well I'm a Cincinnati graduate and I know how to spell the name. When I went to school there they were THE national power in basketball but were in the nondescript Missouri Valley Conference with the likes of Louisville, Drake and Bradley as I remember. Strictly basketball. Cincinnati wasn't even MAC caliber in football as they got beat annually by nearby rival Miami University.
post edited by Davydd - 2012/11/29 17:37:28
Re:Conference Realignment 2012 2012/11/30 00:49:03
This is way too complicated for me.
Let's just put everything back together again like it was 4-5 years ago!!
Re:Conference Realignment 2012 2012/11/30 10:48:35
Better yet, just dissolve all the conferences, put all the I-A school names into a (very large) hat, and draw for schedules.
Re:Conference Realignment 2012 2012/11/30 16:32:27
Cincinnati. Honestly, a typo I keep repeating. just typing too fast and my fingers are doubling the "t" instead of "n."  I also consistently mistype include to inlcude, and peaople instead of people. Why my fingers like to hit the "a" in the middle of the word, I do not know. Back to typing 101 I guess.
Cincinnati's (happy?) football history could be its undoing in this mess. The whole restructuring is clearly football oriented, and spells trouble for Cincinnati (got it again). Its saving grace it that it is located in a large market....Cincinnati (I actually typed it wrong and had to fix). And shares the State of Ohio with Big Ten. Although, Ohio is largely Big Ten/OSU oriented in terms of football.
But, USF is also in trouble. If Florida State or Miami doesn't go to SEC, USF might be stuck in Big East for some time. Another situation like Cincinnati (I will fix everytime I blow it now), where the program is not a storied program, but sits in a large market. Tampa is a good market. Bigger than Tallahasee. So, USF would be a good pick for ACC, but ACC will definately want UConn, so space is needed, but it's there. If ACC wants 16 teams, USF has a good chance. If ACC wants to stay at 14 and only replaces UMD, I think UConn is the pick, and USF is out.
I still question ND's ability to remain independent. Despite this year's success, which is an anomoly in recent history, it seems with these mega conferences forming, not belonging will be a big mistake for a storied program. I don't feel that way for an Army or BYU, because they simply aren't that big. BYU will have a hard time competing with Utah and maybe even Utah State, as they align in their conferences. And Army, is not going ot be challenging for a national championship. So, playing them in non-conference if not the same as adding ND to an already brutal schedule like one in the SEC, and the other mega conferences. But, maybe others think it's possible. I'd like to hear the reasoning. Although I think one reason is name recognition, and playing them in non-conference game pumps up your "resume" should you be having a stellar season.